Full Episode Transcript 

Danny Gavin Host

00:05

Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor. I’m your host, Danny Gavin , and, together with industry leaders and marketing experts, we’ll explore the meeting point of mentorship and marketing. We’ll discover how these connections have affected careers, marketing strategies and lives. Now get ready to get human. Now get ready to get human. Susan is a passionate digital marketing expert with over seven years of experience in both agency and in-house environments. She specializes in crafting impactful PPC campaigns that not only drive customer growth and increase sales, but also maximizing ROI while minimizing budget and waste. As an agency leader and emerging speaker, she’s dedicated to exploring innovative strategies and tools to help businesses thrive, while also advocating for diversity and personal growth in the fast-paced world of digital marketing. Today, we’re going to be talking about personal growth, mentorship, diversity and the future of marketing and PPC. How are you doing, Susan? 

Susan Yen Guest

01:14

I’m good. Thanks for having me, Danny. This is awesome. 

Danny Gavin Host

01:18

Yeah, and we hung out a couple months ago in San Diego, so that’s when I first got to meet you and you’re really cool. 

Susan Yen Guest

01:26

So it’s so nice to have you on the podcast. Yeah, time goes by really really fast, but it was such an incredible just conference and meeting just talented experts and just industry leaders as well. So it’s really nice to get to meet you, obviously. So it’s always great to connect. 

Danny Gavin Host

01:39

So, Susan, where did you go to school and what did you study? 

Susan Yen Guest

01:41

I went to the University of New Hampshire studying communications, so I was in a COLA program and then I did marketing as a minor. 

Danny Gavin Host

01:51

Are there any things that happened inside the classroom or outside the classroom? When you look back at that experience, that kind of paved the way for you today. 

Susan Yen Guest

02:01

I’ve never been the school. I hated school. To be completely honest, I think I always struggled with just learning in general and sitting in a classroom. So having people outside of just the classroom and having, you know, my professors or teachers just provide a space for me to go afterwards to be able to, because sitting in class it’s a lot of people you can’t really ask those personal questions. You don’t want to look stupid no one, you will never look stupid, but at that age, at that point in your life, you don’t want to be that person. 

02:34

So I had this amazing professor, professor michael jackson, who I was always able to go to for guardians, and then our, you know, guidance professors, um, or just also we had organizations that you could join. So we had, you know, black student union, where you know, guidance professors, or just also we had organizations that you could join. So we had, you know, black Student Union, where, you know, as, in a place where it’s New Hampshire, I think we try to be diverse and I think UNH does a really good job of trying to push diversity. But you’re in New Hampshire, there’s only so much you can do there. But we did have organizations. 

03:04

You know our Asian Coalition, our diversity, our LGBTQ organizations, just being able to provide those spaces for people to be able to connect and talk about what’s going on, because I mean it’s being in college, that’s your first time making these decisions that could be very impactful later on in your life and you need a space, a safe place to talk to people about it and to share, you know, kind of connect and say, hey look, I’m not the only one going through it. So it’s not only nice to have you know professors are able to have those office hours and give you space for that, but also the school to provide a space where people like you and other students like you can also connect, because it’s not just not just about education, it’s also about just personal growth. That also happens. I’m in UNH. Just an incredible job of being able to provide the spaces for for you to grow individually, but also as a student and how did you choose that university? 

Danny Gavin Host

03:56

did you grow up like around the corner or did you actually say, hey, I’m going to New Hampshire? 

Susan Yen Guest

03:59

I don’t even think I thought about college until I was like a junior in high school. I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do and I give props to any high school that’s heading off to college that is very determined, knows what they want to do. I don’t think I knew what I wanted to do until I graduated college so I chose UNH. Honestly, I love my mom and she ceases. I love you and I’m sorry. 

04:25

I needed to branch out and be on my own and be able to make my own decisions and kind of push myself a lot more, because I’ve always been I think one of my coaches in high school was I always said that Susan does, she can always do better, but she doesn’t push herself and because I always have people there to always kind of help me out, not like as a crutch, but just being able to give that space to myself and I think just leaving the house is what I want to do. But I didn’t want to go so far away that if something were to happen I couldn’t come back home. And UNH was that kind of perfect middle ground and it’s just the community there is so great and they have such an inviting network. So as soon as I got on campus I just felt honestly at home, so that’s mainly kind of why I chose that school. But yeah, it’s just a great school and just a space and the ability to grow and thrive. 

Danny Gavin Host

05:15

So did you fall in love with marketing at school, or was it more later on down the path when that happened? 

Susan Yen Guest

05:21

I remember sitting down my senior year of high school and my guidance counselor, you know, mentioned that oh, you should do communications, and I was like I don’t even know what that is. Instead, I decided to go to business right when I went to college. So I did Whittemore School of Business Now it’s Peter T Paul. I hated the business portion of everything. But when you take these business classes, they do have the marketing portions of it. 

05:45

And marketing is not just you know one thing, it’s a bunch of different things that you can study. And because I didn’t know what I wanted to do, I didn’t know where I wanted to go. The world is just such a big place and everyone’s all kind of pushing you to go one way or the other and I didn’t know. You know everyone’s telling you when you graduate you know school you’re going to have lots of debt, make sure you can have a job. So there’s just different mindsets with economics or all that business stuff that I was like that is not me. I need to be able to explore my creative side but then also be able to have that degree so I can graduate and choose. So I have, you know, it’s not just economics, because when you do economics, it kind of puts you in that in this box. 

06:27

And marketing was like you can do tv, you can do print, you can do computers, you can go, you can work for any company, doesn’t matter what um industry you’re in. That’s what made me fall in love with marketing. I actually thought I was going to be in tv, um doing all that broadcasting and behind the cameras and stuff, and, and that was just a lot of work. But I think that’s why I chose marketing. I fell in love with marketing because it’s so diverse and it’s so ever-changing that I liked that flow, that consistency, like no day is ever going to be the same in marketing, which it won’t. Well, for me anyways. 

Danny Gavin Host

06:59

No, I agree, and either people really like that or some people don’t. 

Susan Yen Guest

07:02

But if you do, then marketing is a really good choice, so Susan how would you define a mentor? I would define a mentor as someone that definitely has experience, regardless of if it’s in the area in which you’re mentoring that person to be. But I think a mentor is a person that holds space and is able to just listen, but then also give the feedback where feedback is needed, because we already have enough people, enough in the world trying to tell us where to go, who to be, what to do and all this stuff that I think. Just being able to hold space for those individuals and be able to kind of steer them in the direction where they want to go, but also sometimes people don’t know where they want to go but having them be able to get or be able to talk about because sometimes I’ll do that, I’ll talk out loud to myself sometimes or I’ll call you know, my sister or something, and I’ll just talk out and then I’ll come to my own realization of my own solutions. 

07:57

And I think mentors are meant to create space. We’re not here to push people to say, hey, this is what’s right and what’s wrong. It’s a hey, I’m here if you need guidance, I’m here if you need the references. I can connect you to the right people if need be. If you want to do this thing, I’m going to help you, guide you or provide the right tools and equipments to do what you need to do, or that support. Actually, I think that’s what mentors are supposed to be. They’re supposed to be a support system and a foundation to hey, if you do try that out and it doesn’t work out, let’s sit back down, let’s talk about it and we’ll figure it out together. 

Danny Gavin Host

08:29

So let’s talk about some of your most influential colleagues, who have also mentored you, namely Nava Hopkins and Mark Irvine. 

Susan Yen Guest

08:36

Yes, we worked together for a really long time. So I started working at a company I think they got bought by Gannet, I believe it was called WordStream and I didn’t really quite know, understand paid search. So I started off because you didn’t learn Google Ads when I was in school, that’s just. I don’t think it really existed, it wasn’t really there, no one was really getting into it. So I kind of worked as a marketing person, which meant you did everything. So when I realized I wanted to go into that Google paid search route and understand it, just working at a company like Workstream, there’s just so much that you could do. Mark and Nava just knew I just looked at them like you know, when you know, like they just know, they’re just otherworldly. Like they just know everything and you can never be anywhere in years. They any questions I ever had, they had the answers to them. And if they didn’t have the answers to them, they would come back and just say, hey, look, I, I it’s okay to not know something, and if you don’t know something then it’s okay to admit it. And then just say, hey, look, I’ll go back. And it now becomes a learning lesson more than anything and just that ability to just be able to say, hey look, um, if, if this is what you want to do, this is what you’re good at, let’s go ahead and work towards that. 

09:47

I remember one day I worked with our software engineers. So I sat downstairs with Nava cause we’re both we I trained and consult the clients on our software and she just did conferences and all that stuff. And I remember her telling me that I should be doing conferences and I remember looking at her like she was crazy. So I was like that is that’s a lot, that’s a you thing. You do that it’s. It’s just sounded so just outside of my spectrum and somewhere where I was down the line maybe in 10 years or something I’ll get there but she just had she saw something in me that I didn’t necessarily see at that time and now you know she came back and she’s just got me connected to all these amazing people. 

10:29

With Mark I actually at one point I decided that I didn’t want to do paid search anymore. I worked for a really small startup and that didn’t work out. So I was like you know what, maybe I need to take a step back and reevaluate what it is that I really want to do and I did like paid search. It was just like trying to find the right company, the right fit. And I remember getting a message from Mark actually from Matt and then Mark and you know he was like, hey, we have a position that’s open. Do you want to come work? And I was like I don’t know. He’s like, well, you’re really good at this and I think that you could, you know, create something great here. 

11:05

So I think, like with the two of them, they just they see something and they do this with, I think, everyone around them and especially with Mark is they see something within individuals and they’ll try to kind of motivate you and push you to do that and say, like I see something in you that you might not see. If you don’t want to do that, that’s okay. See, if you don’t want to do that, that’s okay, that’s fine, but just believe in the potential that you have. Don’t do too much of that unnecessary work. If this is a path that you really like, Push yourself to do the best and be the best that you can be. And that’s kind of there what they’ve done and showed me. 

Danny Gavin Host

11:33

Wow. So I had no clue that you worked at WordStream with them and now this adds so much more. I know who I want to bring on my team, I know which A player I want to bring. That’s a huge compliment and it’s awesome that, yeah, that you just had that. You had that relationship with someone like that, someone who you like, really looked up to and then able to connect with them, help you grow and then also see your potential. 

Susan Yen Guest

12:09

And then even say, hey, I want to bring her on my team here as well. So cool, yeah. Yeah, it’s definitely unique. I think it gives props to who he is as a person as well, with how he created the team here at Search. 

Danny Gavin Host

12:16

Lab. So obviously Nava said hey, Susan, you really should go into conferences. So how long did it actually take? I don’t know when. When was your first conference that you spoke at? 

Susan Yen Guest

12:27

Ah, three months ago. 

Danny Gavin Host

12:29

Right. So I, I, I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to assume it, but wow. So it so. It took a couple of years, huh. 

Susan Yen Guest

12:37

I like, yeah, I think even when I thought about it, it was more of a hey, cause unfortunately we did lose, um unexpected lose, uh, mark, and it just left such a gaping hole in our company, cause he just does so much, just not like within our company, but just in just the marketing, I think paid search industry in general and especially with our company. You know, we’re running around trying to figure out, okay, what he did, everything, everything. How do we kind of split up the stuff? Um, and I remember telling him that I really I love traveling. And he’s like well, if you love traveling, you like conferences, how do you feel about? And I was like, well, let’s just we’re gonna just push that aside. 

13:18

So it’s kind of, um, you know, when you’re sitting in those moments, um, and kind of go through conversations and and that was one thing I remember talking about and I was like you know what this is, I need to get out of my, my comfort zone. And I remember, yeah, nama reached out and she was like they’re looking for speakers for this event and the whole time I was like, even honestly, throughout the whole entire process until that day. So I think my first speaking agent was SMS Max in Oregon and that whole from November, from the time that I found out that I was speaking to the time I was done speaking. I was scared it was just a whole different, but it did take out. It took a bit, quite a bit. It took some time, for sure. 

Danny Gavin Host

14:00

I know how amazing Mark was and I think in some ways he kind of left you a gift right. It’s like, hey, you know I’ve got to go, but I need someone to fill my footsteps. You know footsteps in my place. So it’s cool that he left that gift for you and that you actually jumped on it. So obviously I heard you speak. You’re wonderful and amazing and hopefully it’s going to be the start to a whole new chapter for you, which you’ve already started. But to continue and keep growing, it’s so cool. 

Susan Yen Guest

14:24

Yeah, I got to make them proud, both of them proud, so that’s my goal. 

Danny Gavin Host

14:28

So let’s talk about now how you kind of mentor others. You put down that you mentor your sisters, samantha and Seth, so we’d love to know, yeah, how does that mentoring relationship work? 

Susan Yen Guest

14:37

It’s a little bit different. I mean, I have like four younger sisters, so I’ve always felt more like a mentor than and then. So we all kind of came here and I think it’s always doing the things or making the decisions that you would look back and be proud. There are going to be some decisions that you’re going to make that you’re not so proud of, but I think being able to talk to my siblings especially because there’s again there’s five of us, so there’s different stages that each of them have kind of gone through and I think what our conversations are either it’s you know, I’ve gone through these different things and there’s you’re not going to learn everything from school, which is frustrating. It is what it is sometimes life experiences. So it’s always great to be able to sit down and talk to them. And you know, college decisions was a big one. 

15:24

How do I apply for these things? My guidance counselor saying these. But these people are saying that, like what should I do? Um, taxes, okay, now it’s time to get a job. Or like, what do? How do I have these interviews? What does my resume look like? What do I want to do, especially with it? 

15:40

When it comes to family members, it’s easy to want to be protective and to kind of create a bubble around them and just say, yeah, that sounds like a good idea, but maybe not, but it’s. It’s usually like, hey, I’m going to be here. Um, if, if that’s what you really want to do, I’m here and as a support system and I am a call away if you need to. Happy to look at anything you need me to look at, happy to look at any negotiations that you might need to do in regards to, like, your salary or anything like that. But never trying, never trying to push them too much one direction or the other, because I hated that. I’m the type of person if you push me too hard on something, I probably will go the other direction. So just doing that for, you know, my siblings has always been something that I’m passionate about, and I think they also push me to just be a better person in my career and then just as an individual. 

16:26

And then this is actually my first time being a manager, which I never thought. I I don’t, I don’t know, I never thought of myself as as a manager and as that mentor for them, cause I know, when it comes to work is, you know, there’s this gray area that sometimes happens with hey, I’m your manager, this is your job. But then also, how do I help my team, make sure I’m listening to what they want to do and where they see their career, because I think, as as managers, I think managers I call managers mentors as as well, because I think that that’s one in the same and it should be in that job description. So I love being able to kind of see my team grow from hey, what do you know? What are some things I can do to help you out, or do we need to? What are some tools I can provide you? Where do you see yourself in? 

17:12

A little bit, I want like sometimes this isn’t going to be, you know, the last company that that person’s going to work, and we can’t expect that from from people. 

17:20

It’s a. This industry is very fast moving and people’s lives change and they go in all different directions, and if I can help provide that the tools and the resources that they need, then i’m’m happy to do that. I mean, I have a team member right now that, you know, wants to be a manager one day and he wants to take the necessary steps to get there. So it’s just again, it’s just it’s providing that space, space for them to be able to not only open that space so that they feel comfortable telling me, because I think that also sometimes you’re like, hey, where do you want to go? And they’re like, well, whole different industry. So just that honesty and that feedback loop that ends up happening, because then they also help me become again just a better leader in industry as well. So I think we’ve worked together in terms of just creating that space for one another and teaching each other all that stuff. 

Danny Gavin Host

18:11

And in that specific case, did you ask them hey, I think like you would be a good manager, or was more like them coming to you saying, hey, what do I need to do in order to get there? 

Susan Yen Guest

18:18

I started with more asking them what they wanted to do. Where do they see themselves? Because sometimes when we as mentors speak first, that kind of might take away from that listening that I think a lot of people don’t necessarily do. So I always like to ask hey, I think I do this, you know, with my clients you had any questions concerns. There’s something that you will want to bring up first so that we can address that. 

18:42

And if I need to cater my conversations and I can cater my tone a little bit differently so for them to kind of come up to me and say, hey, look, this is where I want to go, because it’s not about me. If I see them being a manager, then great. If they’re like I’m not really actually sure, okay. Then I’ll say, hey, look well, from outside person, looking in, I think you’d be great for this role. But if they know where they want to go, then I don’t really see the sense of me bringing this up. But I will, if they are willing to. I’ll say, hey, like, if you want to hear me out, I think that this role is, I think this is a good direction. But I also have you considered being a manager or being a team lead, then I would throw that in there, but I think it all starts with listening to them first. 

Danny Gavin Host

19:22

So, outside of the things that we already discussed, can you share a pivotal moment in your career that significantly contributed to your personal growth in digital marketing? 

Susan Yen Guest

19:36

I think I thrived myself on always just being super, super driven, super independent and always being a perfectionist at all times, which I that’s just mad. It’s kind of messed up where you just you just can’t, can’t do that all the time Cause then, when things don’t work out the way that you planned, it sticks and does take a toll on like your own mental state a little bit. So I actually worked for a company who were like a startup for maybe six months and unfortunately I got let go and that cause again, being that perfectionist and being that goal setter where you know anything that I do is very purposeful. So for for that to happen, it was just kind of a oh, oh, no, okay, what’s going on, what do I need to do? Like this is not good and I’m sad. It just made me maybe like, oh, I’m so bad at this job, I’m terrible, and that’s kind of where my mentality went from. 

20:21

I think we go through the phases of grief, anger, sadness, and then you know, okay, I need to like figure this out. So I think that’s when I took a step back and thought maybe this is not something I’m good at and maybe this is just a career that isn’t best fit for me at all. It made me doubt myself in my expertise and where I was going in terms of growth wise, and so I think, going through that, I think I needed to do that and I needed to cause. I’ve never lost a job in my whole entire life. People do, and it happens to a lot of people. So to me I was like, oh no, I’m such a failure. This is just not great. 

20:57

So I think I needed to do it and I think it definitely coming out of it on the other side and that’s kind of where Mark came in it was like you’re good at this job, that company and you guys just may not have been the best for each other, but I think that also I took their feedback as well with my performance, and I think that also pushed me to just learn more and get a little bit more information. 

21:17

And so I got, you know, I studied a lot more and got into my resources. So I was like now I’m going to come back and be the best I could be. So it’s definitely. I think the athletic, competitive side of me definitely came out, where I was like okay, if I’m not, if you guys don’t think I’m good at this, then I’m going to be the best. So I think that that pushes what I needed. Definitely was not a good feeling at the time, but I think it helped me kind of do a mental check in regards to just my profession, my knowledge base and what I really want to do and the expertise that I needed to add on to my resume per se. 

Danny Gavin Host

21:49

Yeah, I’m a big believer that things happen for a reason and things really do happen for the best. And I know that’s hard, because obviously there are hard things that happen in our life. So it’s difficult, right, I’m not saying it’s an easy thing, but this thing that I always say is, like we ask God to bless us, that we should see the good right. So it’s awesome that you can like step back now, right, thank God, you’re very successful. But to look back and say, hey, yeah, that was really crummy, but you know what, because of that, look how much I grew and my perspective switched, that’s awesome. It’s awesome that you’re able to look back at that. 

22:24

Another interesting thing, just because I was at a conference a week ago. It was a bunch of agency owners and it was called 2Y3X and it’s based on the book Scale at Speed. It speaks about the concept of getting rid of C players, and I know I’m talking from the agency owner perspective, so it’s a little bit different. But I thought the idea that a company, an organization, has a certain core values system and some people in your company aren’t necessarily going to have the same values. Now, that doesn’t mean that they’re bad people or anything, but sometimes they’re just not a match and really, in order for them to find the best place, it’s about how can they find an organization where their core values and the organization’s core values match. 

23:04

So I think, when you look at it that way, it makes it a little bit easier to be like you know where they. But I’m not excusing it, I’m just saying that I think we all have to, like, look at ourselves and be like okay, what’s important to me? What are those things that are going to make a difference and to make sure that where you’re working, you’re in line with that, and if it’s not, that’s okay. Right, you’re not always going to be a perfect match, but then there is going to be a place somewhere out there for you. I know I learned that concept recently and it’s kind of like what we’re talking about, so I just wanted to bring it up. 

Susan Yen Guest

23:34

I think it’s. 

23:34

I think the experience in addition to that is is that cause I always tell my, my sisters or any of my friends, when it comes to took the business classes and like interviews and all that stuff. 

23:43

So I always say, hey, if you’re doing, if you’re looking for a company or you’re doing interviews, is, I think, thinking about it as in this is an interview for two people, like it’s not just them looking for you, it’s you also looking for them. Because if you think about it as a one-sided, like okay, do I fit in their mold, and you keep it at that, later on, six months from now, a year from now, you’re like, oh, this isn’t really my environment, I want to be in, I want to leave. It’s because that basis of I think, when they say, hey, do you have any questions, I think that’s the perfect time to say, okay, now I’m going to interview you guys and see if you guys fit with how I want to live my life and where I see myself and who I am as a person. I mean, if it doesn’t match up, sometimes that’s just as you mentioned, mentioned, not the best. I always tell people that it’s an interview is our and jobs are. It’s a two-sided relationship. 

Danny Gavin Host

24:36

It’s it’s definitely give and take out, and I think that’s also like super important for sure yeah, and I use that concept also just with agency relationships, also right, with our clients, the same deal, oh yeah. So, talking about that, because you’ve been lucky to have experienced both in-house as well as an agency, can you just compare a little bit the challenges or the benefits that you experienced? And obviously now you’re in the agency world, so why would you choose that? 

Susan Yen Guest

25:02

let’s say they’re definitely very, very different. In-house is. For me, it was a lot, it’s a lot more work. A lot, um, a lot, it’s a lot more work. But I think that the benefits of it is that you’re working for one client. You get to know the ins and outs of what’s going on the print to the videos, to the sales team, to the. You know that company, um, and I think that’s what makes that in-house person so unique. When it comes to having an individual dedicated to just your account because they do they, they know everything. They don’t have to go and like, communicate with someone else, get this other person usually it’s like okay, if I’m going to set this, I’m going to set it up when there’s no meetings. I need to go back and forth. It’s just a lot of, a lot of work, um, especially if it’s depending on the size of the company, that work just tends to never really end and if you’re out, you’re out, out. But in-house is definitely I think it’s because it’s just such a niche. It’s one company, one industry and you’re just focused. I think if you are a person that’s in the or getting started in the digital marketing atmosphere and trying to decide between agency and in-house. It’s just do you want to work for? Is there a company or industry you want to work for? If you are an expert or you really like an industry and you want to stay in that industry, definitely finding an in-house company would be the best fit for you. 

26:18

Agencies is you have a bunch of different managers, different team account managers, and you have a bunch of different accounts and they’re in several different industries for the most part. 

26:29

So you are in a day probably handling a lot of different subjects at the same time. So if you’re a person that you like thinking that way like you know, sectioning off your days and talking about different industries all at the same time every day and things are changing and you’re having conversations with different personalities every day if that’s not for you, then probably agencies like that’s just what agencies are. You’re getting new clients, clients are leaving. Sometimes you have long relationships with clients that end up staying and you’re working with multiple different. You might have a conversion tracking team, you might have a website team, whatever it is, but you’re not just doing that for one company, you’re doing it for multiple different companies. So if you like your hands in a lot of different spots and a lot of different industries and and you like things to continuously be changing all the time, then I think agency is definitely the way to go, but they are very, very different. 

Danny Gavin Host

27:27

So, Susan, you recently posted on LinkedIn about the concept of being frequently approached by people who ask I went to conference and I learned this. Why aren’t we doing that? What advice do you give to those who need guidance and understanding what approach is right for them? 

Susan Yen Guest

27:41

Understanding yourself as much as you can in terms of, I think, laying down your own groundwork is what do I want to do and where do I see myself? And then being able to reach out to people, because I don’t. I think LinkedIn is really great about connecting people and I really don’t think that anyone would be upset if you read I’d rather get a message from someone saying, hey, I have a question about this thing. Or hey, uh, you know we had a conversation at this conference, um, can we just elaborate on that? Or hey, I really want to do this thing. How do you get there? Or you’re already doing this thing, how do I get there? I’d rather get those messages than the messages I’m getting, which are like a sponsored messages or whatever sales situation that’s happening. 

28:23

And I think it’s just, it’s using your connections and I really don’t think that anyone’s ever upset to be able to take that time and help you out and kind of guide you or give you the different references, and it’s just, I think, knowing where you want to, what you want to do and asking that question. But if you’re like, I don’t even I, I don’t even know, but what you’re doing is looks really cool and that’s. That’s also something else that you can do, but I think it’s just like it’s doing that research, source research and and just figuring out you know where you want to be and, because everything will change, you’re going to change, but in that moment, if that’s where you want to be and that’s where you see yourself, then use those connections and find those people on LinkedIn and connect to them. I mean, I know that my company is great at providing resources, so if I did want to go to a conference or something, I want to say it’s just also speaking up for yourself. 

29:14

We might rely on too many people to help us out all the time, but if you don’t speak up, then no one’s going to know what you need help with or how to guide you and give you the resources that you need. So I think that’s what I use, especially when going to conferences is definitely like listening and asking questions to people like, ok, I’m really scared about this speaking thing. Like well, do you have any recommendations? And they’re like oh, yeah, I remember what that felt. Like I’m like oh, you did. Ok, I’m not the only one. That’s like sweating here. So it’s just it’s asking questions and just being open to finding things. 

Danny Gavin Host

29:46

You’ve mentioned in the past the tough hustle local business face. Can you elaborate on some specific challenges you’ve seen businesses encounter when considering PPC? 

Susan Yen Guest

29:56

Yeah, I think local businesses struggle with paid search because I think the biggest thing that I always hear is it costs a lot of money. I mean pee pee is like a paid purse, you know, so it’s kind of um. I think that that’s the biggest hurdles is, everyone thinks that the paid search is this really expensive thing that needs to happen and it’s and it’s not. And then sometimes they’re, you know, they’re also pigeonholing themselves in the methods that used to work and they don’t want to go outside of that. I know, when I first moved to where I live now and I’m going to these local shops that no one has heard of I’ve seen probably three stores in the same location so many times but it’s because I was like if you only just did invest in your own company and invest in a little bit of digital marketing and digital marketing it’s not just Google, google ads or Bing ads, it’s also just Facebook it was just also really cheap. You could do just spitefully cheap or inexpensive. There are affordable ways of doing paid search If you find the right people or the right agency, the right person to do it. But try it, and I think too many people are stuck with. Oh, you know, I get it, I get my, my. 

31:05

Uh, people come into my business because it’s a word of mouth or I put it on this newspaper or I have this billboard. I’m like, how do you track any of that you don’t have? There’s no, there’s no way of tracking it. There’s no data, there’s nothing. Everyone is on Google and they search you. So even if it’s like SEO, just do that, just a little bit of effort. 

31:24

And I always say like if I see a company, it’s like my biggest pet peeve. If I’m going somewhere and I don’t see them running anything at all, even if their organics is terrible, their website is terrible, I always kind of question and maybe it’s because I’m, it’s definitely because I’m in this industry is if you are not willing to invest in your own company and you’re not willing to invest in yourself, why should I invest in you? I’m not going to build a relationship with a company or go to the same coffee shop if I know they’re not going to last very long. So I think a lot of companies are just scared and also it’s hard. 

31:56

There’s a lot of agencies, everyone’s marketing at you all the time saying we can do it, we can provide here. You know, if you hire us we’ll get all these numbers. So they’ve probably been burnt also so much that now they’re just either it’s budget different methods that may have worked in the past but it might not work now, or they’ve tried it and it got burnt. It didn’t work that one time 17 years ago, so now they just don’t want to do it anymore. So I think local businesses struggle because it has to be usually one of those three things, especially one for just talking to the companies that are around me, and then also local businesses that we’ve had come in as clients and I usually ask them is this your first time? Why haven’t you ever tried it? Because at this point, if you have a website and you’re not running paid search and you’re not doing marketing, I have questions like why didn’t you try it a while ago? 

Danny Gavin Host

32:48

and that’s usually one of the reasons being an advocate for diversity in digital marketing. How do you feel like companies can better support and amplify diverse voices in their marketing efforts? 

Susan Yen Guest

32:58

it’s one of those caution go in that with caution, like we market people all the time and we do things for a reason. So you can’t just do diversity for the sake of doing diversity, Because I promise you will know your diverse people and your diverse team members will know and they’ll pick it up and sniff it out. So, like any posts that you do that you’re like, oh, happy, whatever. Okay, but what is the purpose behind it? I think being able to provide not just like resources and platforms and the space for your team members to feel comfortable, Like if you have a company where it’s not very diverse, that’s fine, Accept that fact, but don’t just do a hiring for the sake of having you know diversity in the company and also just talk to your minorities. And also, that also depends on each individual. I’m a person where I’m like please have a conversation with me. If you’re not really sure about something and you’re not really sure if you should post that thing or if we should celebrate this thing, or what efforts should we put in, then ask that question. I’m pretty sure there are companies out there and resources that will help you. I’m pretty sure there are companies out there and resources that will help you, Like I think there’s like DI companies and they’ll tell you how to. I don’t really know how necessarily, I know within my company I’m like okay, these are the things that I would like to see for our company is you know that when we’re posting things, there’s a reason behind it? Because if we’re going to just post it, then I want us to. Why are we doing that? And I want us to have reasons behind it, as opposed to just doing it for the sake of doing it. And so I think, like providing platforms where I’m like you know, I want to go to minority conferences where there are women, like black women in marketing or being an advocate. How can you guys help me be an advocate of this? I think companies need to hold themselves. Just accepting that you don’t have diversity is step one, and accepting that this is where we’re at now. But would we like to have diversity? Sure, Not every single company is going to have a diverse work field because, depending on where you are located I’m in New Hampshire I’m probably going to be the only white person in the company if I go to most companies, but that’s just the area. And accepting that fact, but just asking and communicating with your diverse team members, or even going out and finding a company and saying, hey look, this is we’d like to be a more, we’d like to support this community a little bit more, Even within as a company, within your neighborhoods. Is supporting those local businesses like supporting those diverse minority we have those holidays for a reason like support minority businesses. So that’s like if you’re gonna do a post, then I hope somewhere in your blog or something that or donations that you’ve made to help those local businesses, those minorities or those women in minority-owned businesses. Like you’ve done that and you are putting kind of we’re at a place in in the world where put your money where your mouth is type of a thing, but put your supporters doesn’t end up being necessarily needs to be. Money could just be one of the uh. 

35:53

My favorite things with with wordstream that we did um in the past was uh with like fridays you can choose something that you wanted to do and we would go at it. You can do a soup kitchen um event, so like have teams go to soup kitchen. You can even for um disability um individuals. You there’s runs that you can do so to support different organizations. So there are ways of doing it. You just need to honestly just put effort into doing the research, because they’re just saying that you’re gonna do and just throwing it out there and just posting it on the internet. Everyone does that. I post stuff sometimes that I’m like it’s just there for fluff, I’m not trying to actually say anything, but companies really can do that. You really need to stand behind every single post you do and the brand that you’re creating. 

Danny Gavin Host

36:34

Yeah, I think that’s so powerful because it’s very easy to just check boxes and say, okay, we did this, but, like you said, the people that it does affect they see past. Are you really just doing that or just doing it because you have to, and I think that’s really important. So, with all the changes coming with AI and everything, how do you feel like people can future-proof themselves, specifically when it comes to paid search? 

Susan Yen Guest

36:57

I have a like-hate relationship with AI currently. I just went to NADA it’s one of the biggest auto dealership conferences with my team and I was talking to one of our sales members, robin, and she was telling me she’s like I have a really hard time talking to clients because everyone’s asking us if we’re doing AI and I’m like, oh, that’s funny because I’ve got all the conferences I’ve gone to. The big headlines is always AI and whatever else which it’s amazing and AI has. I think we’ve all we’ve all always in paid search have kind of been using a version of AI. I actually think I did a LinkedIn post about it today. We’ve always been using a version of AI. It’s just now grown a lot more and now it’s a new shiny toy that everyone wants to try out and to learn about and I think that AI can really help us. I just think we really need to be careful with the extent of which we depend on it too much, because I can tell if someone has written their whole entire thing on a chat TVT like that’s an AI or like their ad copies copies. You can tell sometimes that someone just copied and pasted it, because the amount of ad copies that you have to write, and sometimes because I don’t think it’s it’s there quite yet with certain things, is things start to sound too similar, um, especially with ad copy and stuff, because it’s the same industry, people are probably going to be searching the same things, but we still need to add that human aspect of how do we make this unique to that individual, because they don’t necessarily know us as people. This is the machine and it’s here to assist us, um, in the things that we do need help with, um, but not necessarily to to take over and for us to just use it all together. Like if you’re going to launch it. I tell my team I’m like, if you’re going to launch a campaign, yes, use chat gp, it’s going to be really great. 

38:47

But don’t use just that. Go on the website and learn what they’re. You know what’s on their website, what’s on their content. Look around you, I don’t know. I’ll be driving. I see a billboard. I’m like that is all right, that’s a good idea, and I’ll, you know, branch off of that, like using an idea platform, and I mean there are definitely certain areas where, like reporting and stuff like that does make our jobs. It will make our jobs a lot easier, especially with, like, the image generations. Okay, that not so much, not yet. It’s not there yet, because some of those images are definitely questionable, but I think it’s. I think it’s definitely getting there. But I do want us, as paid search people, to definitely take not. I think maybe it’s because it’s just such a, but it just sounds like such a buzzword now, where it’s just everywhere and everyone’s, especially my clients, they’re like are we using a? And I’m like do you even know how? 

39:36

what that means yeah, I’m like, well, it could be everything and anything at this point. What did you learn? So I always want to ask them like okay, you’re bringing it up, You’re asking me for a reason. So someone told you that they were using it. How did they use it? Because I need to know that first before I tell you how we use it. That’s so good, Because I tell them that we don’t really use AI. 

39:59

Our team write your ads manually. And I’m like no, you can tell them we use AI, but we don’t use solely AI. We use AI to optimize and to build and to read that data and to help us out formulate something that you know will help us build the strongest campaign for them. But it’s not our everything all together. So I think it’s definitely going to be an amazing tool. It’s going to get there all together. So I think it’s definitely going to be an amazing tool. It’s going to get there. But I don’t want us to forget just the talent and the mindset that we, as humans, still have and to integrate that together and not just depend on it too much. 

Danny Gavin Host

40:33

All right. So before we wrap up, a quick lightning round. I’m going to mention a topic and you’ve got to tell me what your favorite thing is First. One travel Greece. And you’ve got to tell me what your favorite thing is First one travel. Greece. I like Greece also. Okay, food. 

Susan Yen Guest

40:48

Chikuri board. 

Danny Gavin Host

40:54

What I think that could match Like your background is very like Chikuri it is. It makes sense. 

Susan Yen Guest

40:59

If I could be on a tropical island somewhere, that would be my background at all times. 

Danny Gavin Host

41:04

And if you had a day where you didn’t have to work, what would you do? What would be your favorite thing? 

Susan Yen Guest

41:09

Just sleeping and binge watching TV Phone on, do not disturb. 

Danny Gavin Host

41:13

Favorite show. 

Susan Yen Guest

41:14

The Witcher. 

Danny Gavin Host

41:16

I enjoyed Witcher as well. Well, Susan, thank you so much for this awesome talk. I’ve learned so many new things about you and we have so many different things to consider as well, based on what you spoke about. So thank you so much for being a guest on the Digital Marketing Mentor and thank you, listeners, for tuning into the Digital Marketing Mentor. We’ll speak with you next time. 

Susan Yen Guest

41:34

Okay, thank you, danny, it was great. Great to see you again. 

Danny Gavin Host

41:36

Thank you for listening to thedmmentorcom and at thedmmentor on Instagram, and don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts for more marketing. Mentor magic. See you next time. 

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