095: AI Answers: The Future of SEO is Already Here  (Office Hours)  

C: Podcast




In this solo Office Hours episode, Optidge founder Danny Gavin dives into how generative AI is radically reshaping how we search, discover, and measure online visibility.

From the shift away from rankings to the rise of Generative Engine Optimization (GEO), Danny breaks down what marketers need to know now, and how to stay visible and relevant in a world where ChatGPT might answer before Google does.

An Optidge “Office Hours” Episode

Our Office Hours episodes are your go-to for details, how-to’s, and advice on specific marketing topics. Join our fellow Optidge team members, and sometimes even 1:1 teachings from Danny himself, in these shorter, marketing-focused episodes every few weeks. Get ready to get marketing!

Key Points + Topics

00:25 – Danny opens this special solo Office Hours with a critical question: What happens to SEO in a world where AI gives the answers before you even hit a search result?

00:46 – The search landscape is shifting fast. Tools like ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, and Gemini are no longer fringe; they’re where people start their queries.

00:55 – He shares how this evolution is reshaping everything from visibility to measurement and if you’re relying on traditional rankings, you’re already behind.

01:05 – SEO used to be about showing up first in blue links. However, Danny explains how AI search skips the click and users get a curated response instead of a list of links.

01:15 – Danny provides an example: Instead of scrolling through ten blog posts, users now get direct answers to specific questions, with context, comparisons, and sometimes citations. Instant insight, no browser tabs required.

01:28 – He introduces Generative AI Search, suggesting that it’s not about where you rank anymore, but instead about whether your brand is in the answer.

01:45 – Danny gives listeners a brief overview of the AI Search timeline, starting in late 2022 when ChatGPT launched, and how within months, it became the fastest-growing app in history, putting conversational AI in everyone’s hands.

01:55 – Shortly after, Danny explains how Perplexity enters the scene, blending real-time results with generative answers. It changed the expectation for relevance and freshness.

02:05 –Then,  Meta’s LLaMA model pushed the boundaries of generative AI, while Google rolled out Bard (now Gemini), a cautious but major leap into AI-integrated search.

02:25 – Danny notes that by late 2024, OpenAI gives ChatGPT real-time web access via GPT-4 Turbo and suddenly, it’s not just a chatbot—it’s a full-blown AI search engine.

02:40 – In just three years, we’ve gone from keyword lists to dynamic, AI-powered summaries.  Because of this, Danny says that users are now adopting this new search behavior at lightning speed. 

02:52 –Here’s where Danny believes GEO – Generative Engine Optimization enters: the evolution of SEO that meets the AI era head-on by shifting focus to being cited, summarized and trusted versus trying to make it page one. 

03:15 – To succeed at GEO, Danny advises a focus on 3 pillars:

  1. Visibility on third-party sites, forums, reviews, and media.
  2. Authority via original content, testimonials, and trusted sources.
  3. Structure that machines can parse, think clean headers, schema, and formatting.

03:32 – He suggests that this isn’t a replacement for SEO, it’s an amplification. Your content still matters, but now it must teach AI, not just attract crawlers. 

03:45 – Danny gives four key steps to start optimizing for AI: 

  1. Structure your site like a library: headings, bullet points, FAQs.
  2. Get cited where AI is trained: Reddit, news sites, major platforms.
  3. Publish content with real stats, quotes, and unique perspectives.
  4. Literally ask ChatGPT about your brand, then adjust your strategy based on what it says.

04:40 – Danny proposes that AI is the new SEO crystal ball, just like meta tags and backlinks gave clues in the past, AI-generated answers now reveal your digital reputation.

05:00 – From the 2003 Florida Update to RankBrain, BERT, and now AI Overviews, Google’s algorithm has consistently shifted from instant summaries toward understanding intent and context. 

06:00 – Danny mentions that old-school SEO metrics are becoming unreliable and that inclusion rate is now the most important KPI.. Positioning? It’s fluid. Click-through rate? Irrelevant if there’s no click.

06:35 – To navigate the world of dark traffic where AI tools get inaccurately attributed to “direct traffic,” Danny suggests monitoring traffic spikes, using brand monitoring tools, and building in trackable links to mitigate this challenge. 

07:14 – He gives us a real-world example: An electrician in Houston asks ChatGPT for top local providers—and doesn’t show up. That’s a wake-up call.

07:25 – He reviews who does show up: those with solid reviews, trusted listings, media coverage, and tight site structure. The takeaway: You have to earn your spot by building real authority and relevance.

08:30 – Your website is now a signal, not just a destination. It tells AI whether you deserve to be cited in the next answer.

08:46 – Danny’s action steps: 

  1. Audit your presence on trusted, indexed platforms.
  2. Ask AIs directly what they know about you.
  3. Optimize your content to be clear, trustworthy, and citation-worthy.

Guest + Episode Links

Full Episode Transcript

Danny Gavin Host

00:05

Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor. I’m Danny Gavin, and today we’re diving into a transformation that’s changing the way we market, search and measure success online, how generative AI is changing search and what that means for your brand. We’ve entered a new era, one where people are just as likely to search in ChatGPT, claude, perplexity or Gemini as they are in Google. And that shift it’s already changing how customers find information, how marketers measure results and how businesses build visibility. So today let’s unpack what’s changing, what’s staying the same and how to stay ahead.

00:58

For decades, seo, or search engine optimization, has revolved around rankings Show up in Google’s top results, get the click, convert the customer. But AI has introduced a different flow. Imagine asking what’s the best eco-friendly sweater under $50? Instead of just getting 10 blog links and three ads, you get a curated, conversational response complete with context, comparisons and, sometimes, sources. You don’t even need to leave the AI tool to get your answer. Well, that’s what generative AI search is, and it’s changing the game. It’s no longer about being the top result, it’s about being included in the answer. So to understand why this is happening so fast, let’s look at the AI timeline starting from 2022. Openai launches ChatGPT. It explodes. Within months it becomes the fastest-growing app ever, introducing the public to conversational AI. Later, in 2022, perplexity debuts with an innovative twist blending AI with real-time search results. Suddenly, you can get both relevance and recency in one answer. Then, in early 2023, meta introduces their own generative AI called Lama, a foundational model that fuels new experimentation, but it isn’t built for search just yet. In the middle of 2023, google launches BARD, which is now called Gemini, their response to ChatGPT. It integrates AI in traditional search, though slowly and cautiously Late. In 2024, openai integrates real-time web search into ChatGPT, with the release of GPT-4 Turbo, dramatically enhancing its power as a true search engine. In less than three years, we went from keyword-based lists to intelligent, real-time created answers and users they’re adopting fast. So what do we do as marketers? Well, we’re just going to have to evolve with it. Welcome to GEO, generative Engine Optimization.

02:52

Geo is about showing up inside the answers AI tools generate. It’s not just about links anymore. It’s about being cited, being summarized and being trusted by the algorithm. And here’s what it takes. Number one visibility across traditional websites, third-party platforms, forums, reviews and media mentions, because this is where the AI finds out are you a real business? What are people saying about you?

03:15

Number two you need to have authority in your niche, proven by testimonials, stats, quotes and original insights. And finally, number three, structure your content must be clear, well-labeled and original insights. And finally, number three, structure. Your content must be clear, well-labeled and formatted so machines can understand it. So remember that’s three things visibility, authority and structure.

03:32

This isn’t a pivot away from SEO, it’s an amplification of it. Your content needs to do more than just attract crawlers. It needs to inform AI models. So let’s talk action. Here’s how you start influencing AI-generated answers today, and I’m going to go over four points. Number one structure your content like you’re building a library Use H1s, h2s, bullet points and FAQ formats. Make your site skimmable for humans and digestible for machines. Number two be present where AI is looking. Chatgpt has licensing deals with Reddit, newscore and other major media sources. If you’re not being mentioned on trusted sites, you’re basically invisible to the algorithm. Number three create authoritative, human-centric content. Generic blog posts won’t cut it anymore. Use real stats, quotes and data. Add personal insights. Build content that earns citations, not just clicks. And finally, ask the AI what it thinks of you. Literally type in why should someone choose Danny Gavin’s plumbing shop? Who are the best plumber providers in New York City? Then reverse engineer a strategy based on the results. If you’re not showing up, why not? This is like the early days of SEO, when link building and meta tags gave clues. Today, ai’s answers give us a roadmap. Now we can’t talk about GEO without acknowledging Google’s long AI journey. Here’s a quick refresher.

04:55

In 2003, google came out with the Florida update that began to crack down on keyword stuffing. You know people were able to stick a bunch of keywords multiple times and that’s how their content would be found. But at this point, google’s like no longer and SEO grows up. In 2013, there was the Hummingbird update. Google begins to understand intent, not just keywords. So what is someone actually looking for, and not just hey, these keywords are what need to be found on the page. In 2015, rankbrain Arise. That’s Google’s first use of machine learning and search rankings. Then, in 2019, came BERT. This update helps Google grasp context in natural language queries. And finally, in 2023, ai overviews popped up.

05:40

Google begins summarizing results at the top of the page, providing instant answers that users never need to click away from. So, if you think about it, google didn’t just wake up one day and become AI. First, it’s been heading there for over a decade, but now, with generative models, it’s finally arrived. So here’s where things get a little bit uncomfortable. Many of the metrics that we’ve learned to use and rely are losing value. So rankings you don’t know what position you’re in when every answer is dynamic.

06:08

What about click-through rate? If AI gives the answer, there may be no click at all. And what about keyword search volume? People are asking nuanced, long-form questions that don’t even register as keywords. So, therefore, what do we do? So the new metric to watch is inclusion rate how often your brand is mentioned in AI responses. That’s the new top-of-funnel visibility.

06:29

With all these new search behaviors comes a new tracking challenge dark traffic. When a user clicks a link from ChatGPT, perplexity or even Google AI’s overview, that visit often shows up in Google Analytics as direct traffic, even though it clearly wasn’t. So you can’t see where people are coming from. There’s no refer, no UTM, just poof. They’re there so to navigate this. Number one monitor your direct traffic for sudden spikes. Two, use brand monitoring tools to see if AI is talking about you. And number three, create trackable links where possible, but expect some data is still going to remain hidden. Dark traffic is frustrating, but it’s also proof that you’re being discovered in new ways and some of the old ways that we’ve used to measure just aren’t going to apply anymore.

07:14

Let’s put this into practice with a real-life scenario. You’re an electrician in Houston, so you ask ChatGPT who are the top-rated electricians in Houston. It lists four companies and you’re not one of them. So what do you do? Number one analyze what the listed businesses have in common. They’ve got reviews, they’re found on these directories, there are media mentions and they all have a very strong site structure. Number two make sure your website includes trust signals. Does it talk about licenses, guarantees or how many years you’ve been in business? Number three build out your presence on review sites. Look these four websites. They’re found on Reddit or even YouTube if it makes sense. So if they’re there, you’re also going to need to be there.

07:52

And finally, ask the AI what criteria it’s using and then mirror that on your site. This isn’t about tricking the algorithm. It’s about earning your place in the answer. So we’re not watching SEO die, we’re watching it mature. The marketers who win in this new world will build visibility across platforms, not just websites. Prioritize influence, not just rankings, and focus on being answer-worthy, not just findable. So your website, it’s not just a destination anymore, it’s a data source, a signal to AI tools that you matter. So where do you start? Number one audit your presence across trusted sources. Two, ask generative tools what they know about your brand. And finally three, optimize for trust, clarity and citation worthiness. So the sooner you adapt to GEO, the sooner you start showing up in the answers, not just in the search results.

08:46

Thanks for joining me on this special episode of the Digital Marketing Mentor. If this gave you clarity, share it with someone who’s trying to figure out the new landscape. And if you’re testing strategies with GEO, send me a message. I’d love to hear what you’re learning. Until next time, keep optimizing, keep experimenting and, most importantly, keep mentoring. And don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts for more Marketing. Mentor Magic. See you next time.

00:00 / 09:25

 

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