079: From Microsoft to Mentorship: Jeremiah Andrick’s Journey of Lifelong Learning

C: Podcast




What happens when nearly two decades of digital marketing expertise, an entrepreneurial spirit, and a passion for mentorship converge? In this episode of The Digital Marketing Mentor, Danny Gavin sits down with Jeremiah Andrick, a seasoned digital marketing professional who has worked with powerhouse companies like Microsoft, Logitech, and SteelSeries. Jeremiah’s journey is anything but conventional, as he shares how mentorship shaped his career, lessons learned from his immigrant grandfather, and his philosophy of building teams that thrive. Dive into this insightful conversation to learn how personal values, lifelong learning, and challenging the status quo can create extraordinary results in marketing and leadership.

Key Points + Topics

  • [00:05] – Jeremiah has an impressive career spanning companies like Microsoft, Logitech, and SteelSeries. With nearly two decades of experience, he introduces how mentorship, team-building, and continuous learning have defined his journey. He and Danny first met at a Houston conference years ago, where Jeremiah’s innovative presentation style left a lasting impression.
  • [2:32] – Jeremiah recounts his early days in college, switching schools, and pivoting from computer science to communication theory. His journey from dropping out to working at a startup before finishing his degree while at Microsoft reveals his passion for learning by doing.
  • [8:11] – Inspired by his grandfather’s dedication and entrepreneurial spirit, he shares stories of growing up in a hardworking family, learning to value resilience, community, and the importance of leaving things better than you found them – all values that have become part of his leadership and mentorship philosophy.
  • [10:39] – Jeremiah believes the essence of mentorship is a mutual growth opportunity. He discusses how great mentors test and refine their ideas by guiding others, emphasizing the power of shared learning and constructive friction.
  • [14:11] – Reflecting on his career, he shares how embracing a mindset of continual learning has made him a better leader and mentor. He contrasts his youthful certainty with the wisdom gained from seeking growth.
  • [20:21] – He shares more about his grandfather’s influence, from teaching the value of hard work to instilling a sense of responsibility to his family and community. These lessons shaped how he approaches both business and life today.
  • [23:55] – Jeremiah recalls his time at Logitech under the mentorship of Lance Binley, whose coaching transformed his leadership style. From “wide-open fields but high fences” to prioritizing team well-being, Lance’s guidance remains a cornerstone of Jeremiah’s philosophy.
  • [29:35] – Paying that mentorship forward, Jeremiah reflects on his efforts to support women in leadership roles, emphasizing the need for inclusive hiring practices and mentorship that amplifies unique strengths. He shares how investing in diverse perspectives has enriched his teams.
  • [35:59] – He also provides insights on the emotional and professional challenges of leaving a job, likening it to going through a divorce. These challenges make it all the more important for managers to create positive momentum for new team members.
  • [41:41] – Diving deeper into marketing, Jeremiah and Danny discuss the shifting landscape, including the complexities of ROI and ROAS in an ever-changing environment. Jeremiah shares stories of adapting strategies to meet evolving challenges.
  1. Treating Marketing as Part of Finance: Jeremiah emphasizes the importance of understanding how marketing efforts tie into overall financial outcomes, such as contribution margins and profitability.
  2. Avoiding the ROAS Trap: He highlights how chasing high ROAS (Return on Ad Spend) metrics can become addictive and short-sighted, likening it to a temporary fix that doesn’t address long-term business goals.
  3. Business Model Alignment: Jeremiah underscores the need for media buyers and marketers to fully understand the business model they’re supporting, tailoring strategies to align with financial realities like margin caps or funding structures.
  4. Shifting Expectations in the Digital Space: He talks about how platforms like Facebook and Google have evolved to make high returns harder to achieve, requiring marketers to rethink their approaches to maintain profitability.
  5. Emphasizing Fundamentals: Jeremiah stresses the importance of going back to basics—evaluating the business landscape, refining goals, and striving for what’s realistically achievable rather than chasing outdated methods.
  • [46:36] – Jeremiah emphasizes the importance of bringing diverse voices to the table, sharing examples of how hiring and promoting women has positively impacted his teams and businesses.
  • [52:18] – In our lightning round, Jeremiah shares his passions, from competitive shooting and vintage cameras, to his love of travel and exploring global cultures.

Guest + Episode Links

Full Episode Transcript

Danny Gavin Host

00:05

Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor. I’m your host, Danny Gavin, and, together with industry leaders and marketing experts, we’ll explore the meeting point of mentorship and marketing. We’ll discover how these connections have affected careers, marketing strategies and lives. Now get ready to get human. Get ready to get human mice and software. Jeremiah has almost two decades of digital marketing experience. He started his career with Microsoft in 2007 as a webmaster and tool developer and has since worked with other big names, including Logitech, htc Vive and VCIS Inc. He’s now at SteelSeries. He’s also a passionate volunteer and mentor. Jeremiah is currently volunteering with Seattle Startup Drinks and the Boys and Girls Club of King County. Today, we’re going to talk about a bunch of different topics, from mentorship, building teams, lifelong learning and so much more. How are you doing, Jeremiah? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

01:10

I’m doing well. 

Danny Gavin Host

01:11

Thank you. So I know I gave you an official intro, but now I want to give the unofficial intro. So let’s go back 10, 15 years. Danny Gavin’s like this 25-year-old marketer, you know, doesn’t really go to a lot of conferences. There’s this one really cool conference in Houston, Texas, put on by the I think it was HIMA and you know we were lucky to get like people, speakers all around the country to come in, which was really awesome. And here’s this really cool redhead guy, Jeremiah Andrick. He comes in, his presenting style is so different from everyone else and he’s really cool and it’s like man. I just wish I could sit next to him during lunch so I could talk with him. And I actually got to do that and got to have like this little rapport. And you know, sometimes the people on the stage are kind of untouchable, but Jeremiah was just so cool and so inspirational and he’s someone that I’ve watched and followed for years, so it’s a big deal to have him on here today, so welcome. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

02:04

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I’m glad to be here. I remember, I’ll tell you, I remember that conference really well because I got to experiment a lot too and people were so generous and I went I think I spoke like four years in a row there, which was pretty cool, getting invited Houston’s so hot, even in February, and I was always just like as long as I could stay in the conference rooms February, and I was always just like as long as I could stay in the conference rooms. 

Danny Gavin Host

02:28

I was fine, so I love it there, though People were so great. Yeah, good times, let’s start off? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

02:32

Where did you go to school and what did you study? Actually, you know, my college education was a little strange because I got out of high school and I didn’t really know where I wanted to go and originally I’d gotten accepted at Baylor and Paterno in Texas, both of those schools. I grew up in North Dakota. I also looked at University of North Dakota and I had a great uncle who, at the funeral of a great aunt, was the head of the church that I grew up in. He said to me all those places sound really nice, but it’d be really great if you went to Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri next year and I was like, okay, I was pretty malleable. I’m like I guess I’ll go there. And in spite of not having any scholarships or anything, I dropped everything, changed my plans and went to Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri. Sight unseen, I had seen all the other schools and I had scholarships and I just dropped everything and went and it’s a liberal arts private college. They have about 1600 students there. It was a pretty good experience for me overall, other than the fact that it’s related to the Assemblies of God church and even though I grew up in that church, my parents were liberal in some unique ways, I would say. They were very much like you’ve got to sort out religion stuff for yourself and encouraged us to embrace religion. But it was still one of those things you have to sort out on your own and to go to a religious institution. I was very much in culture shock. I did not fit in. I grew up joking like you don’t drink, you don’t dance and you don’t go with girls who do kind of thing, and I was at this school where people really lived thing and I was like at this school where people really lived that and I was like I drink, I dance and I go with girls who do kind of thing. So I didn’t fit in very well. I lasted about a year and a half there and then transferred to Southwest Missouri State, which is now Missouri State University, and I was really only there for a year. 

04:20

I studied computer science and journalism. In both schools I had a double major. I ended up switching my major midstream to communication theory, which ultimately was much more beneficial to my computer science engineering experience. But I actually ended up dropping out my third year to go work on a startup. There was a little startup in town working on building media properties for food service and for ad clients. It was the time I think it was number 11 in promo, number 75 in ad week in terms of total capitalized billings, an agency called Noble and Associates. Through mergers and acquisitions now they don’t actually exist anymore, but I worked on Tyson Chicken’s first website and French’s Mustard’s first website and I was 17 years old, you know, 18 years old when I kind of got interested in all of that and so I dropped out of college at 1920, go work for them full time. 

05:13

You know I’m living the dot com dream a little bit and it really wasn’t until I’ve been at Microsoft three years before I finished my college degree and I kept working on it. My mom really wanted me to finish. It was a big thing for her just to have it. You know, even though by that point I have this kind of fully developed career, I’m in a place that’s going to, you know, add all this additional educational value to me. 

05:37

But in studying communication theory I think one of the things that really excited me about it is I got to understand both how people engage with different systems of media and the history of that and the psychology behind it, and really became a student of the psychology of behaviors in engaging with new technology and how we learn and how we engage them, and my degree is a Bachelor of Science. 

05:59

So a lot of times I have to clarify to people like I didn’t get it Not that there’s anything wrong with a BA in communications, but that often leads to, like PR careers and things like that, not a bad feel. On the science side, I was more interested in how do people discover stuff, how do they find information, and I think you see that a lot in my talks that I used to give when I would go speaking more regularly is like how do these patterns play out in the way people communicate? And so that’s really where I began. It was kind of a tumultuous ride for a while. There I definitely lived that 90s dream of not really knowing what I was going to do and flipping around a lot for that brief period. 

Danny Gavin Host

06:35

And were your parents supportive during that time? Or was like oh my gosh, what’s Germany doing? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

06:39

I think my mom was worried but she trusted me. I think she knew that I had a really strong work ethic. I worked at nights at a little print shop to pay for my basic needs, you know, covering my rent. You know, key lining and page layout and typesetting I mean old school typesetting. I worked at an old school print shop. We did some things digitally. But you know, I think I’d proved to her like I had a pretty strong work ethic. As a kid I ran the single screen movie theater on the weekends and also worked as a CNA. So I think she already kind of knew like I was a hustler. I was going to do what it takes to pay the bills. 

07:14

But coming from a family my grandfather’s first generation in the US, my mom’s dad and we had kind of an immigrant mentality of you work and you put in the work. I was never not reminded of that and as long as I kind of showed that hustle she didn’t really care. But there was an expectation that education was a game changer. My sister is a college professor, my brother works in academia on the institutional side. I think there’s a strong belief in our family and even now I still strongly believe in academics. I’m just riddled with ADHD and wasn’t really good at being in a classroom. The classroom wasn’t designed for people like me. Her encouragement was really more in find something you love and go and dig into it. I was really grateful that I had somebody who was that supportive of me, sort of seeking out my passion and my path. 

Danny Gavin Host

08:08

You know it sounds like you had a really good support system. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

08:11

Yeah, particularly from my mom. You know my parents split up when we were I was probably 12 or 13. They ran restaurants in North Dakota and were very entrepreneurial themselves. But I was lucky to have somebody who wanted me to go chase my own dreams and not be held back by other people. You know, or like how things must work, you know. But she still wanted me to finish that degree. You know she wanted that paper. 

Danny Gavin Host

08:37

So and you did it, so it all worked out. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

08:39

No, it did work out in the end. That’s the main thing. 

Danny Gavin Host

08:41

So, Jeremiah, how would you define a mentor? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

08:43

I think to me, a mentor is about investment Throughout your career, in your life. I think a lot of us have people who want to invest in us or who are willing to invest in us, and I think there’s a great mentor, somebody who really spends a lot of time investing in one or another person, who sees that they have something they can pour into other people. And you know, a great mentor does it not for glory or for ego, but actually to sharpen their own skills, to refine their ideas. I think the world is a bit of a laboratory for all of us and our own notions of things are really tested when we have to take them outside of our own circle of control and influence that’s us and then we have to apply it somewhere else. And when you’re helping and trying to encourage other people, you know, then you really have to test it. 

09:35

And being a mentor or being a coach to other people for some people feels like this supernatural thing, but I think the best ones it’s not natural, it’s uncomfortable, it’s putting yourself out there in a way that I don’t want my ideas to be super tested, because what if I’m wrong? 

09:52

You know, what if I guide this person the wrong way and you really can’t be afraid of that. A great mentor is the kind of person who does it for the love of the other person and the desire to see the world better. I’m generally of the view that we should leave the world, in whatever way you face it, better than when you came into a place. If a room is untidy and you leave that room if you haven’t tidied it up a little bit as you leave, you’re probably not maybe the right person to be a mentor. You want to see the world in a place that there’s things that you can contribute back into, and so when I, when I invest both myself and people, but in the people who invested in me, they’ve been the kind of people who wanted to see the world better, and we’re good at at at helping with that, I think, in so many ways. 

Danny Gavin Host

10:39

So I think I’ve mentioned this on the podcast before, but you just spoke about being like at a religious college. But it’s interesting, in rabbinical school, both even in like high school and secondary, the learning style is in Hebrew it’s called chavrusa, which means sort of partnership, and actually most of the learning happens where you’re sitting at a table across from someone else and there’s a lot of back and forth of teaching and learning and part of the reason to do that is like exactly what you’re saying, like through teaching someone else something that’s actually how you’re going to learn it better. Just, you mentioned before which is a concept which I don’t think I’ve heard in 75 or so episodes, but that idea of that it doesn’t mean that the mentor’s doing it because they’re thinking, oh, I’m going to get something out of it, but truthfully, by them, like you said, helping someone out, testing their ideas, they’re actually going to grow and gain more. That just kind of you know. That brings me to it. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

11:36

I think the scriptures talk about iron, sharpening iron, and I think most religious traditions have this idea and I think if you look at other religions that are sort of outside of the Judeo-Christian worldview, I think there’s similar ideas. I even have a young Islamic guy on my team right now and him and I spend we’ve spent hours talking about the way the world works and from our different viewpoints, not to disagree with each other, but actually to further sharpen our own viewpoints. I think in many ways you get a stronger sense of your own view when they are challenged. And a good mentor I mean some of the mentors in my life have had to put up with me when I was younger, coming into the room and going like you are wrong and like me, yelling at them, and I, especially when I was younger, I had very, I was not a very pleasant person. 

12:26

I would just come in and be like this is the way things need to be and this is how we need to move and why is it taking so long? And let’s go. You know you get a little older and a little wiser and you go like, oh, there’s things you don’t see and but you need to be able to, I think, sharpen against each other. You need to have that friction. Friction creates heat, I guess, and the heat creates a spark, hopefully, to create better ideas. And you know, maybe it is one of those things that we miss now in this digital space where we have to meet like this rather than in person, as much post-COVID, but where, you know, we don’t have that across the table from each other as much as we used to. In some ways, there’s a lot of value in that and it’s very special, I think, as an experience, for us to be able to do that. 

Danny Gavin Host

13:11

I have a son who’s 13 and he’s very black and white, so I think I need to get him to talk to you a little bit. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

13:18

Yeah, yeah, I hung on to that teenage black and whiteness for a lot longer than I think most people did, probably, but to that teenage black and whiteness for a lot longer than I think most people did, probably. But you know, we learn and we grow. I’m definitely a lot wiser now at 45 than I was at, you know, 20 or 22. I definitely had a strong sense of, oh, I know how the world works. Now I’m like, the more I know, the more I’m like I don’t understand why the world works this way. So, but you know, really, it’s about learning how to move through the world this way. 

13:45

But you know, really, it’s about learning how to move through the world. You know and adapt to things, rather than knowledge of the world. And I’m so confident in my ability to learn, but not always confident in my ability to know, you know and where. Earlier in my life, I think I felt like I knew everything and didn’t need to learn. And now I’m like what can I do next that I need to learn? So, yeah, it’s very important. 

Danny Gavin Host

14:11

Okay, let’s dive into some of your mentors. So you mentioned your grandfather shortly before. Why do you consider him as one of your mentors? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

14:18

You know my grandpa was an interesting guy. His dad had come over from Sweden at a very, very young age, at 11 years old, by himself and had a lot of pressure. It was a long story there but there was a lot of pressure on a typical immigrant family to better themselves. Having come from Sweden and wanted a better life for him and his family, he had dropped out of high school when he was a kid. His family had dropped out of high school when he was a kid. He did join the US Navy and learned to trade and came back and built a home moving and home building business with his brothers and they ran that business for 50 some years. 

14:56

I grew up in the back of that construction yard and lumber yard and you know from a little kid I was expected to both work and help out there, whether it was moving trash around or cleaning up the shop, but just generally working with my grandfather and watching his work ethic but more importantly, the way he ran his business. And he was an open book about a lot of things. He would ask us questions as young men, me and my cousins, about how we were handling our money and how we were paying ourselves. Were we paying tithe, how were we planning things? And he was just the kind of person who loved to work hard and he showed an incredible work ethic to us. And in many ways it wasn’t always the conversations that you have with later mentors in your life, but was this like you saw his routine day in and day out about the way he treated his customers? I understood very, very early on that my grandfather was a fair and deliberate man with his customers. He cared a lot that they were happy with their company’s work. That you know oftentimes. Sometimes if people couldn’t afford a thing they needed, he made stuff happen for them and he wanted to do right in the world, in town. If somebody was having a hard time and needed a job, he was one of the first, you know people to offer people work and find them work, because he personally believed that a man who puts his hand to work is going to be better than one who’s sitting around doing nothing. You know, often he invested in people who probably didn’t entirely appreciate the investment too. You know that’s typical with that kind of thing. He wasn’t naive, but he was. He was a hard worker and with him I also learned that, just like the value of having a schedule. 

16:40

He was the kind of person who, him and his brothers, sat every day and not to turn this into religious talk but they sat every day and did a devotional together in the morning, had their coffee, went out and did work and then they’d go build something. And then they’d come in and do fika and sit and have coffee and I’d go and sit with them. As a kid Fika is like that Swedish word for the 1030 coffee break I’d come in and they’d sit drinking their like terrible coffee and these old Scandinavian men would sit in the back of the lumberyard and not talk for 30 minutes, you know, just sit and stare at each other. And every once in a while somebody might go oh, did you hear about such and such family or whatever. They’d gossip like little old ladies, but generally speaking they kind of would take these breaks. You know, at 10 and two they would take these breaks and they would pace themselves through their work and I think it made them better at their work that they had this kind of schedule and approach and routine. And yet my grandfather would put in hours and hours of hard work. 

17:38

He when I was in college, my freshman year, I came home to help him re-roof his own garage and he was in his 70s and the day after I left the man fell off the roof, got back up on the roof and finished what he was working on and a week later it goes to my mother, lifts up this shirt and shows these bruises and was like should I go to the hospital? You know, he was that kind of man. It wasn’t that he was a superhero, it was that you know everybody’s playing through something you know, and he was the kind of person who just has to keep moving. If you don’t keep moving, you know you’re going to fall apart and you have to keep working. I feel like I learned a lot about my own work ethic with him, just my desire to put my hands to something and to keep moving and to have the respect of a community. The way he did when he passed away. Hearing people talk about him as a person was almost its own. The mentoring event was like all these reminding of what character means and you know, being an imperfect person in an imperfect world, but trying to deliver your best for your family and for yourself was something he was very good at. When one of his brothers died, he took care of his kids for a very long time, even though he had a large family himself. He had a family of nine and he helped take care of his brother’s kids. There were six of them making sure that they had clothes and food and things they needed. 

19:00

These are values that I knew as a kid, going into my adulthood, that I wanted to emulate, that I wanted to invest in others and invest in my community and invest in my business, and to also invest in the people that I hire and the people that I work with Like how can I help make them better? He taught me a lot and the fact that I can do the trim in my house or do certain kinds of things around here that require physical labor. Even though I don’t want to be a boy, I’ll tell you that’s a weird mental thing you have to do. It’s like I know I can do this, so I should probably go fix this thing, but I also am busy and it’s probably not the best use of my time to like to go and redo all the trim in the house right now. That doesn’t mean I haven’t done stuff like that, but I am my grandfather’s grandson in that way. I love spending time doing things with my hands and investing in it, and it feels good as a person to do those things. 

19:51

So yeah, he was. He was a great example type, mentor of things, and he cared a lot about his grandsons. He wanted us to be the best versions of ourselves, and we were often told when we were young you know, we have this. It was an immigrant thing, in a way. It’s like you, your family came here and they worked hard, so you need to go work hard too. We put it, we invested a ton so you could go to your fancy schools and you could go work on computers and play with your toys, you know. So it’s definitely a different mindset, for sure. 

Danny Gavin Host

20:21

Man, he sounds like a special guy. It explains a lot about you. Just knowing about you and I mean having someone in your life like that can change your whole life right, and not having someone like that, you know, can change your whole life. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

20:33

I actually think about that a lot, like how you know I know a lot of people who have not had a kind of connecting influence or, like you know, a shining light to show as an example of stuff. 

20:45

And you know the downside of having somebody like him in your life too is, you know, it’s a high standard to live up to for some people, and I think some people will look at these kinds of behaviors and go like, well, I want to have a different path and think that there’s only one way or there’s only one standard, and I think when you look at somebody like that, you should actually see that actually what their life is as an example of how there is a bunch of different paths. 

21:14

You know he didn’t take a traditional path and he did work with his hand, but he was still a businessman who built a successful and long running business. You know you don’t have to take one path to the place, but what a lot of people will see is the hard work and think that, well, I just have to brute force everything or whatever, and that they reject it. And I don’t think that’s the lesson you should take away from people like my grandfather or even the way I work today. You have to do what’s best and optimal for you to get the job done and to make your life what you want out of it. 

Danny Gavin Host

21:44

Was there ever any pressure or opportunity to join the family business? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

21:48

Not really. I think nobody wanted us to have to work like they had to work. I think in later years several of my cousins and I got together and we go hunting as a family together every fall. My cousin Scott was in the Navy and he works for the US military as a contractor and him and I will often talk about like it’s too bad somebody in the family didn’t take over whether it was one of the sons, you know, and I know for my grandfather it was sad when he sold and auctioned off the business as he retired. 

22:21

But it’s also North Dakota and even with the oil industry there it’s a tough place and it’s hard country out there. It builds hard people and nobody really wanted us to have to go through and live the way they had to live and to hustle the way they had to hustle. They wanted us to have a better situation and I think that’s why my grandfather, when he would ask us questions about money, for example, his whole thing was like pay yourself and pay God first and then do what you have to do after that. We’re like kind of big ideals for him, not just because of the, not just because of his religious views, but because of his own, wanting to make sure he built a better life. 

23:00

After you know, he won it and I think he probably had regrets that he had not been able to invest more to set up his kids even better than they were set up. You know, he’s sharing this idea that invest more to set up his kids even better than they were set up. He’s sharing this idea that you have to put money in savings, you have to have a backup plan to your backup plan. Winter’s coming, you know, and people don’t. It’s a good lesson, but he didn’t really have it. I don’t think they really ever wanted us to be in that position. I’m sort of glad because, as I can do stuff with my hands, but my grandpa could bore a slab of cement without even thinking about it, or I would have to go and watch YouTube videos. So yeah, you’ve mentioned Lance Binley who I believe, worked with you at Logitech. 

23:55

Tell me why Lance is one of your influential mentors. I think for a lot of people who knew me around, the time I joined Logitech I was not in super great shape. My two years of working on Bing were really hard for me personally and professionally. I traveled around the world and I was just exhausted. Microsoft was burning me out. It’s a lovely place. Honestly, I still maintain tons of friendships at Microsoft and I mean it really is a great place but I was burnt out and was really struggling and, honestly, I was pretty broken and I resigned from Microsoft and just said look, I’m done. I can’t travel anymore. I can’t go and speak at these conferences, I can’t do engineering work and do marketing. I need a different path. Like I was so stressed out working hard and so I quit. 

24:50

I took a bunch of time off and Brent Payne, who’s an SEO who had worked at the Tribune company for a while I’d met him through SEO and doing webmaster work at Microsoft with the webmaster community he reached out to me and said I know this guy, lane Binley. He’s building a team at Logitech. He’d been at a bunch of other companies. He’s going to call you and I get this call from Lance and interview with them and I meet him and he was just one of those kinds of people where right away, I was like something about this guy I really like and you know he’s an interesting character. He was a Buddhist, he’d been divorced and has a second wife and, yeah, he’s just a pretty normal person in a lot of interesting ways. But he had been through the ringer enough that I think he saw me and was willing to take me on as a project. He was the kind of guy who and is the kind of guy who has little aphorisms that I find myself now saying to my team all the time Like you know, my view of the world is that we you know I’m going to give you wide open fields but high fences, right, like you’re always going to know where the fences are. But he was really good at building a team. He could, you know, he got this team of guys together and women together to build the direct consumer and e-commerce business at Logitech and he had a charter and a mission and he understood how to invest in people. 

26:14

You know my one-on-ones with him. I could talk to him about anything and I could challenge him on anything. And you know, having come from that engineering world, I always wanted to get on a whiteboard and argue with him and go like, no, no, no. And he I will never forget one time. He said, like I don’t really respect when people get up on the whiteboard, like if you haven’t thought through the idea before you’ve come to talk to me, like you need to go back and think it through. I still like to talk on a white board because I I speak to think is the way I like to describe it, but I really respected the notion that, like he’s challenging me to think things through before I come. 

26:45

The first thing I learned from him is like he really would talk regularly about how we bring our values to work. And if you’re going to show up at work for eight to nine hours a day, it’s a huge portion of your life. You should be doing things that make you happy and make you smarter and make you better, and work is still work. It doesn’t mean we don’t have bad days or good days or whatever, but on the whole, you should be looking at your work as something that contributes to your joy. You’re like, yeah, it should be like, why does it suck? And a lot of times it sucks not because of the work itself, but because of our own view of it or maybe the situation at a company. But he was really, really good at being transparent and sharing his values with us in a way that made me want to be that kind of leader and to not just invest in my employees but to truly coach them and to try and find new ways to get the best out of people. And because I think that was the thing that he was best at, when he retired and left Logitech, I took over his role and you know, to this day I have hired people from that team that worked with us and continue to kind of work with folks that I’ve worked with there to now, even at SteelSeries. My partner on the DTC side of the business is a guy who was on our team there as well, and we have a similar working style and a lot of how we view the world was shaped by the way Lance built his teams, the way he was a. 

28:12

He was a numbers guy. He is a numbers guy. I can still call him Lance. I think that’s one of the things I did when I started the startup. I was at Vices V-I-C-E-S . I guess that you talked about a football helmet startup when I was working on that. When it failed, I called Lance and was like man, I don’t know, what do I need to do? What’s next? And you know we went back and forth on a bunch of things because I was getting a little worried like how do I get to the next level? I’m always stuck at this kind of level, what do I get to do? And asking him should I go back to college? Should I do this, should I do that? You know he’s the kind of guy who doesn’t mind you texting him and jumping on the phone and bumping ideas off of him and I think there’s a. 

28:53

The lesson I think I really learned from him was availability. Like he, he always had time. Even though I worked remote, I was up here in Seattle, he was down in California. He was always available to jump on and work. A problem to invest in the approach. But he was a pretty formulaic guy and I liked that too. It worked for me. He had these formulas he used for everything, and it was during that time that he encouraged me to continue to go out and speak and so that’s like around the time we met. He wanted me to not give up this thing that I was doing at Microsoft and learning about that was good for my career, so he discovered me. Also, knowing that it would think about other things would help me enjoy the work I was doing. 

29:35

Again, thinking about other businesses besides the Logitech business, expanding my horizons and taking tough questions from people and investing in my own learning and then sharing my learnings with others was going to be good for Logitech and good for me. And I think you’re lucky when you have a manager who sees you as a kind of player. I grew up playing hockey and I enjoy soccer and I talked to my team. I hate that. You know I’m always trying to like avoid sports and military metaphors, but they’re really hard to avoid in business. 

30:05

But, like I talked to my team a lot right now my current team at SteelSeries about the need for nobody on the team to be a single position player, like it’s nice to have a vertical you’re strong in, but that we need to be a team like Ajax and we’re going to play total football and everybody has to help create space for other players on the team to get their job done and to score a goal or whatever it happens to be. And Lance was kind of the first person that got me thinking about how you structure a team, how you coach people, how you invest in individual players on the team creates a different set of results. Then if you just say, here’s your goals, here’s your like, here’s the team’s mission, go do it, here’s the OKRs. He was never a just go do it guy. 

30:51

He was always investing in the mental state of the players on his team and I think that’s an important thing for us as leaders and as mentors to remember that it’s about your mentals and your attitude. That’s one of the best ways you can coach people is through keeping their head right at any given moment and focusing on the things that matter and not on the things that don’t. And he was great at that and I thank him regularly. I think he knows how I feel about him. He’s such an interesting character, kind of retiring a little early, earlier than me. I think his goal in life was retirement, where my goal in life is like, how can I work until the day I die? But I think that was also of huge value to me was seeing somebody that I related to so much but also had such different values than me, that desire to get home from work and be with his wife and his daughter, and how he brought those values into the workplace taught me a lot. 

Danny Gavin Host

31:46

So when you left Logitech, it must have been hard, because it sounds like you were really close with him. Was there a certain sadness when you left? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

31:54

I think this is an underrated thing in work that when you leave a job whether you’re going to someplace new that you’re excited about, or if you’re laid off or if the company has to do layoffs or the company goes out of business, which is like they say that leaving any job is a bit like going through a divorce. You go through this sort of grief and there’s that kind of FOMO that people experience. That I think is hard because your peers are still out there doing stuff and you kind of want to be with them. And I loved Logitech. I just hit the top of where I was going to be at Logitech after he retired and set me up for success. I was already kind of on my own. I was building a new team. I set that team up for success. Logitech got a new CMO and I remember meeting her and thinking, oh, I’m probably done here. You know, it’s like I was the guy hired by the last guy, and not that she didn’t like me, she was, she was amazing, by the way. It’s like I instantly was like, oh, she’s super smart, but she had a way of doing things. That was like she was going to want to take the things I’d been building and shape them in her image and I was like this is going to be very I will be in her way. 

33:10

I sent it when I resigned. I sent the CEO and he called me and was like is there anything we can do to convince you to stay? Bracken Darrell, great, great CEO. He’s currently at VF Corp, like Vans, a really amazing and interesting guy. Yeah, call me up on the phone immediately and he’s like what can we do to get you to stay? And I was like look, you know you hire this new CMO and she’s awesome and I will be in the way. Like I can already tell I’m going to be in the way. If the company is going that direction, you guys should have a chance for her to be a success and I don’t want to just be this burden of the legacy way things should work. Let’s go amicably and I’ll just go and find a new playground. And I’d wanted to work in VR. I’d gone to, I’d talked with both Facebook and HTC and HTC was here in Seattle and I’d had a former coworker who worked there and was like I’m going to go play over here for a while and if you guys ever want me back, I’m always willing to talk. 

34:09

But in the meantime I think there was grief for a while. It was eight really successful years for me of personal growth and development, being able to move on to several next new levels and take on more work, things that I mean. Running a sales and marketing team was something I never thought I would do as an engineer. I was like the learning, all the numbers and the budgeting process and all of that stuff that Lance taught me how, how to operate a business, not just how to work a business and to plan, but actually the fundamentals, the P and L and all of that. It was sad for a while. 

34:40

I definitely went through a period of like even jumping into my new job and the excitement of it, but still being like I wonder what this person’s doing, I wonder what that person’s doing, I wonder how the business is going and sort of peeking in on things. 

34:52

You know it’s hard not to. But I think when you bring on a new employee who comes from a place, even with that excitement, I think a great manager tries to understand the feelings they might be going through in the first couple of months that help them embrace the new team and get excited about being where they’re at, because everybody has gone through something. If they’ve gone through layoffs even more, so right, because that’s often devastating to people’s financial life. And they’re excited about the new job and they’re excited to get back to work. But they’re maybe operating at a level of fear and you want to get them into a place of positive forward momentum. Not just you know like nobody wants to be around a drowning man, right Like that’s the most dangerous place to be is really important so that they feel less like that, having just gone through a divorce, and instead more like a new romance. You know something to be excited about you said years ago. 

Danny Gavin Host

35:59

I remember one of your talks. In one of your talks you spoke about getting like I think it was something like a four to eight row as on google ads selling logitech. I don’t know if you remember that. Yeah but to me in my mind to me in my mind it was always like, like all those years after it was like, how do I get that four days that Jeremiah spoke about? Uh, is this so funny for me to remember that now? Oh my gosh. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

36:28

Oh yeah, we are heavily focused. My, I mean it was. I’ll never forget Lance once he had all these aphorisms. You know it was like we’ve given you the company’s checkbook. Like you know, failure isn’t like having a campaign that goes sideways. That’s going to happen. Failure is not trying, and he’s like. But on the other hand, we’ve given you the company’s checkbook and you need to treat it like your own. 

36:54

And from a contribution margin standpoint, if we made a dollar and it took us a dollar to make that dollar, we’re not doing very well. But if we make $10 and we spend a dollar, now we’re self-funding. You know we don’t have to go and ask for a budget. We’re self-funding out of the margin of the products. So how do you get on various products and it was the first time I actually started thinking about my efforts in regard to work as a contribution to the total margin and as a part of the finance marketing as a part of the finance, marketing as a part of the finance. And there are intangibles in marketing and branding that make those numbers work. You like chasing the last click and chasing the ROAS is like heroin. You’ll get it once and then you’ll be doing it forever. Um, look what you did to me, Jeremiah. 

Danny Gavin Host

37:47

What the heck man. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

37:50

I know seriously, and I’m truly I’ve spent a lot of my career chasing these very difficult numbers and it’s gotten a lot harder, because I think what was once possible between Facebook and Google is less possible than it used to be by design from them. They recognize people were making too much money and then would spend less on ads, and so they’ve made it harder for us. And you know it’s, but I think at the same time it’s even then. It was about facing the landscape of the business we were trying to create, looking at what was possible and then striving for the best thing that was possible, and lance was really good at pointing that out. I don’t I don’t know if he actually thought we could hit 10 to 1 or 12 to 1 and at various times we’d hit. We’d hit some pretty crazy numbers. We had a good year where we were doing like 12 to 1 across all of our media and I was like you guys need to give me huge raises, but I’m also acting like a day trader. Back then, you know, I’m like, totally, you’re not sleeping a whole lot if you’re chasing a 12 to one return on ad spend and. But you know, in his mind also, it’s like, well, amazon and Best Buy and this company and that company, like their margins don’t work if they can’t be profitable against their margins. And so it was just this sense that you had to chase the best margin possible. And I think even now, one of the biggest things I end up talking to people a lot about in work when I’m coaching people is like what is the business model you’re chasing? If you’re buying media for my team and you’re thinking about it at this super high brand level and not at that growth or incremental merchant spend level based on the way the funding works for this particular set of campaigns, you’re already doing it wrong. It’s like I need you to first think about what our business model is and then move over here, and oftentimes, if you’re, you know, an I-shaped individual and all you think about is media buying, you may not think about how, like, oh, the funding for this media comes from a 23% or a even smaller margin cap and it’s not really a budget fund in OpEx. But from a P&L perspective it’s a. We can take this out of margin as long as we don’t exceed it. Nobody’s going to bother us. Otherwise we have to, from a financial perspective, treat it as OpEx and now we’re in the negative. And having somebody coach you through how the business actually works can be really eye-opening to the way you design your own performance and it sets a different expectation for the employee. 

40:34

It says I’m contributing not just to this media application but to the output of the business. I actually am impacting the total revenue target for the year. I am impacting the regional revenue target for the year. I am impacting the regional revenue target. Whatever right, the growth of this business is in my hands and that growth is both at the financial contribution level, as well as the new users in the queue. You know and he was so good at coaching through stuff like that I dream of those kinds of ROASs and sit and think about ways we could do that and it’s unfortunately gotten much harder. And I think a big part of our job these days is we coached all these people that this is the way magazines and TV ads. We coached them on a whole new way the world could work and now we’re having to undo that. It’s kind of a shitty thing to have to do. 

Danny Gavin Host

41:41

Yeah, that’s why I say digital marketing is kind of like going up the hill and now we’re going back down. It’s like, yeah, it’s definitely, it’s not easy. You mentioned a topic that I’m also passionate about, because in my company we actually have mostly females, so I just wanted to know why you know you mentioned one of the things you wanted to talk about is about supporting female leadership. Obviously, women have certain challenges being leaders in an organization, but you know what’s important to you about that. How do you help the women on your teams, or even just your colleagues, deal with the challenges? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

42:14

I started at Logitech. At the time Lance left, there was a kind of attrition that was happening where people were starting to leave and turn over and I had to do some hiring. And this was the first time I ever started thinking about this. Before I never really thought about it. I was like I’ve worked with women and I’ve worked with men and it all seems great. But now I’m the boss and I’m having to do hiring. And I was trying to hire in Europe and I was shocked because I would talk to the recruiters at Logitech and I would just get these. 

42:42

I would get the same resumes over and over and over again, and over and over and over again, and they were all men. And granted, I work in consumer electronics, so like there’s kind of draw, but on paper they all looked the same and I was like for the consumer electronics industry to grow, we actually need people with some different ideas, we need people from different industries, we need people, and I but I couldn’t figure out why. I was only like in the globe, it doesn’t make sense that I would only get men, male resumes and it. It was just very strange to me and it stood out as something that was weird. And so I’d start talking to the recruiter and the recruiter’s like well, in this country or this country, you know, when people get the CV, you’ve got the like picture of the person and their name and you get all this history. And in Europe people will even put it as if they have children and stuff on their resume. 

43:31

And I was like I don’t want any of that. When I was like when you’re doing the screeners, when you have a screener do recruiting, whether it be a tool or anything, I want CV to match job description and that’s it and pull their names like, pull the names, pull everything off the top of the resume. I don’t want to, I don’t want the actual recruiter to see any of that. Let’s get them just cd comparisons to and overnight, all of a sudden, I had 49 of the resumes were now women and the rest were men. Wow, all just all of a sudden. And it was very eye-opening to me personally and it became like I’m like something about this I don’t like. I just don’t like that. I don’t like that feeling that there was a game being played on my behalf, even right. 

Danny Gavin Host

44:18

Like so now yeah, 100%. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

44:21

Now, all of a sudden, I have three really talented women on my team, both seniors. All three of them were relatively senior and I had to guide them. The same way, I’m being guided, and I remember reaching out to a couple of friends in the search industry particularly women friends and saying like, okay, now all of a sudden I’ve got a bunch of women on my team and I’m the boss. What do I need to do to coach them? And the reality is, on one hand, it’s the same thing you have to do with everybody else, it’s to listen to them, try and understand what their goals and ambitions are. But I also think for me, the changeover was really putting them in a position where they could speak on behalf of the team, where they could invest and bring skills from you know, you don’t often think about when you think about consumer electronics to the forefront I have. Right now, my team is 50% women, 50% men, even split right down the middle. At SteelSeries, our CMO is a talented and strong woman who’s been both in the CPG industry as well as consumer electronics. She worked with us briefly as a consultant at Logitech. I’m surrounded by strong, strong female players, and I think the difference for me, though, is that, in the industries I’ve worked in, there has been this expectation that women need to work like we do, and I don’t like it. I don’t think a man needs to work the way I do. I want a man on my team to come in and bring his unique talents and strengths to the team, and it is my job as the manager to bring out those talents and help them execute to the best of their ability. Same thing with women. If you’re going to invest in them, you’ve got to invest in them at the level of what are their unique strengths and talents and allow that to come to the forefront and allow that to whatever those differences are and sometimes I mean you know you’ll you’ll work with women, especially in the sales side of things, that are as aggressive and as for lack of a better word bro-y as any other, particularly in the sales side of the world. It’s just something that attracts saleswomen versus salesmen. They just can be very aggressive. 

46:36

In the world we’re in, marketing is so much. It’s art and science, and so we need to draw that out, and we need to create a space where people can be free to be the version of themselves that they are, and that both means being a woman or being a man or being, you know, gender fluid or whatever. Right, like, I want to bring out the best, and it starts with having a heart of like, wanting to see people for the talents and interests that they have and encouraging them to apply that to the business they’re in. You know, when I left Logitech and HTC, there was this part of me that’s like I want any other job than working in consumer electronics. It’s like I don’t want to be known as the consumer electronics guy. I would sell diapers, you know, but only because I was hungry to learn new things. 

47:25

And I think one of the beauties of bringing in women and investing in women on the team is they bring with them a whole host of differences. And when we watch female game players play versus male game players, there’s a different way in which people play. There’s a different way in which people who are left-handed versus right-hand play. And I want the world of gaming, since I do work in consumer gaming I want gamers to play their best and to be the hero of their own story when they’re playing. I know that sounds very marketing, but, like, I want them to be the hero of their game and I think women bring their own unique sort of vibe to a team. But if you’re going to have women on the team, there are, like cultural things that I have a global team, my team’s from all over the world, so we’re not even just dealing with like stereotypes of women in business from the US, but, like my right-hand person right now is a Chinese woman who lives in France and is very French and very Chinese all at the same time and culturally there’s a lot of differences there than me, a white guy from the Midwest, and I have to make space for her to talk, to explain things to me, to help me understand her viewpoints. And if you’re going to lead a diverse team, you have to be willing to sit with people and respectfully challenge them and encourage them and ask them to be their best, but also listen to them, to hear them and to see them and to make space for them to lead, and to lead in their own way, because it’s going to be different than how you lead. Inevitably, I in a lot of ways, you know it’s helped me. I got a um. I hired an executive coach a few years ago, um, just to try and get better, and she was a successful executive and I’ve learned a lot from her. She challenges me a lot in my own goal setting and approach and I think in having a woman executive coach it’s made me a better mentor and coach to my own team of women, and I think I do. 

49:33

There are times when I have difficult conversations because you have to sort of say, “Well, this guy is kind of old school and you have to do things this way to get this thing done.” I hate telling people that because they shouldn’t have to, but on the other hand, we’re all people and we have to live in a world where things don’t always work the way we want them to. But on the other hand, we’re all people and we have to live in a world where things don’t always work the way we want them to. I’ll admit I was a little worried as I’ve sort of elevated this woman in France, like, would people in her office respect her the way they would a male colleague being the lead with the men there? Like, the culture there is interesting at times with regard to men and women. The culture there is interesting at times with regard to men and women. 

50:11

And yet what you find out is that it’s not about those, not things about her capabilities, and we should be focused on her capabilities. And that’s how you invest in women. In leadership you invest in her capabilities, not the culture’s needs. You add to those capabilities so that she can adapt to whatever the culture is. The expectation, then, is that we’re growing and making a place that women can be promoted, that they can grow, that they’re representative of our user base and that their ambition can be achieved the same way a man’s can, and I definitely have had conversations at a previous company. 

50:50

I had a young woman who worked for me for four months in our one-on-one, I would say you know, we have this upcoming annual review and you really need to ask me for a raise, you really need to say this. 

51:04

And I was telling her because it’s not that I didn’t want to give that to her, it’s that company culture was such that if she didn’t ask, I was sort of morally obliged not to. 

51:16

I think people don’t always understand that you have a fiduciary responsibility. That sometimes means it’s unfair, but, on the other hand, you have to be a different person in the negotiating room than you are on the work floor, and every annual review is a chance to have this negotiation with your manager, and I would sit there and kind of like hint at her, like if you don’t do this, I’m sort of like my hands are tied. But if you do this and it was weird to be like a friend you should ask me this, because I will. I’m you know, at the end of the day, I need you to push for what you want and need, otherwise the company will not allow me to give it to you, and I think those are tricky conversations you have to coach people on and it’s unfair that the world is structured to the way men think and work a lot of times. As a mentor and as a manager, we have to do our best to see those opportunities and step ahead of them. 

52:15

Yeah it’s been a big thing for me personally. I hope that all makes sense? 

Danny Gavin Host

52:18

No, it does, and that’s such an awesome perspective. I really appreciate it. So now it’s time for our lightning round. I’m going to mention five categories and you can either tell me your favorite part of it or your favorite type. Move through it pretty quickly. So the first one is rifles and hunting. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

52:35

So funny things about rifles and hunting. I grew up hunting and shooting, but really it’s been later in my life that I started learning how to coach and teach people how to shoot and train people. There was a lot of interest around obviously during COVID people wanting to learn. And I am a safety nut and I’m not a gun nut. I’m a safety nut and so I spent a lot of time wanting to learn more and so rifles became super interesting to me, partly as a competitive person too, because I wanted to go more, and so rifles became super interesting to me, partly as a competitive person too, because I wanted to go out and shoot competitively. I wanted to test myself. 

53:07

And then you get into like the science of ballistics and real engineering nerd and so like how can I shoot further? How can I shoot? You know it’s not about volume, but how can it be more accurate and learning about accuracy versus precision. So rifles and hunting for me became this way to apply all this fun, weird stuff that I was doing in my business life into this weird hobby that I understand comes with a bunch of, you know, strange implications. But it’s also become now a place of joy for me to go out every year with my family and go hunting again, to bring home a freezer full of meat and know where it came from and to learn how to, to like to learn so much about the animals that we hunt. I love these animals, you know. I know it seems counterintuitive, but I spend my year watching them on cameras and like learning their behaviors and you. You get to a point where you’re actually less interested in killing them and you just get super excited to go out there. 

54:05

I think it was Teddy Roosevelt or somebody else that said we don’t hunt for the kill but like we hunt for the hunt itself. Is this right? Like? I know I’m misquoting this entirely, but I like there’s a bit. Once you actually get into it, there’s this thing where you start to realize like so much of the gun and hunting thing is about being with like minded people who want to challenge their own abilities and I love being challenged, whether that’s in sport or in hunting or in shooting, and that’s why I am just not allowed to have any more hobbies that are challenge things. I would never get any work done. 

54:41

All right, how about dogs? I have three dogs Rosie, Ruby and Freya. They keep me very busy. They’re sitting around me right now, fortunately sleeping. But I always grew up with dogs. I’ve had them with me forever. They travel with me at times, which is wild. Every summer I try to go on road trips to see family and friends and I just throw them in the back of the Defender and away we go, and they are my constant companions so I love them to death. 

Danny Gavin Host

55:11

Photography. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

55:12

I started collecting vintage cameras when I was 18 years old. I just loved engineering. I loved how they sounded like watches and they were clicky and amazing and interesting. I dreamed of one day owning a Leica. I now have 15 Leicas and I have a Hasselblad and I have shot all over the world and I currently have a photo hanging in the Leica Wetzlar Germany in their headquarters out there corporate museum. I won an award a few years back. I shoot for my own pleasure and enjoyment. I mean, a lot of people shoot and they enter their photos into competitions. That’s just not me. But every once in a while I’ll get outreach and things from people who like my photography or are interested, and that’s always nice when somebody enjoys your stuff. But I do it for me. My house is full of art and photography. 

Danny Gavin Host

56:00

Growing up, my dad had a shelf on the way to his bedroom which had like a bunch of vintage cameras. So that’s definitely a part of my life, but I don’t know all the names. But I can definitely appreciate it as well. How about travel? 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

56:16

Travel is one of my favorite things. I’m probably happiest when I’m experiencing a new culture or somewhere else. I’ve been to every continent other than Antarctica. I’m still terrified of flying a little bit. I don’t think people realize like you can be terrified of flying and like it, but I love being on the road. I like driving adventures as much as I like flying adventures, but I just like being in other places and experiencing new things. 

56:42

I used to be such a picky eater as a kid and I’ve just learned to be in the culture and be in the moment. I don’t like doing touristy stuff. I want to go to the local bar or the local restaurant and I like challenging myself. But my favorite place probably ever has been is still probably Tokyo. It’s just so. It’s such a foreign concept. 

57:04

Mexico City is an amazing city and it’s one of my favorites, but I would go to Tokyo over just about any place in the world if I could go again right now, just because there’s so few people who speak English. There’s so few likes. It’s such a dynamic place. For someone with ADHD, it can be overwhelmingly loud at night like just anxiety creating with all the blinking lights and noise, but then in the morning it’s so quiet you can hear the clicking of women’s heels on the sidewalk. It’s crazy and it’s beautiful. I highly encourage travel, and if you have one thing you should add to your life’s pursuits to make yourself a better person, it’s travel. You’ll just become a better person. You’ll appreciate what you have more and you’ll want more for yourself too. I think you’ll want a better culture and a better world. 

Danny Gavin Host

57:52

And then, finally, your most favorite tech right now. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

57:55

I actually think where things are going with cars is really interesting. Even in ICE vehicles, there’s just an amazing amount of tech going into cars right now the sensors. It’s hard to begin to even understand how much our cars have become computers in the last, maybe even just the last 10 years, and when you look at the innovations that Tesla has made, the work that BMW and Mercedes are doing I follow a bunch of people from Mercedes and their innovation labs. I follow a bunch of people from Mercedes and their innovation labs and it’s just like the stuff they’re thinking about in trying to make the world better around cars is crazy. And yet the biggest problem we have is that the tires still produce most of the microplastics and waste and we haven’t solved that yet. 

Danny Gavin Host

58:36

Like they’re kind of ignoring that for now. 

Jeremiah Andrick Guest

58:39

Yeah Well. I think that when the electric stuff doesn’t make it any better in fact it makes it worse, you know. But I think that’s what makes it interesting, right. 

Danny Gavin Host

58:47

Jeremiah, this has been such an awesome conversation. I definitely have so much more to discover about you and just your perspective, but thank you so much for being a guest today and thank you, everyone else, for joining the Digital Marketing Mentor. We’ll speak with you next time. Everyone else, for joining the Digital Marketing Mentor. We’ll speak with you next time. 

  

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