104: No Playbook? Observation and Calculated Risk in Retail Marketing with David Gavin

Danny Gavin (Host): 00:05

Hello, I’m Danny Gavin, founder of Optidge, Marketing Professor and the host of the Digital Marketing Mentor. Today I have a very special guest, David Gavin, who is a worldwide sales and merchandising consultant for David Gregg, formerly known as Global Gem. And David’s not just any person, but he is a very special uncle of mine. For those people who know Full House, there was this really cool uncle, Jesse, who’s a rock star, and he was like the cool guy around. So for me growing up, David was my really cool uncle. And therefore it’s awesome to have him here today. Today we’re going to be talking about changing the face of retail marketing, presentations as a way to frame concepts, and taking calculated risks for career advancement. 

This is going to be completing the trifecta. So we’ll have all three Gavin brothers on the podcast. So it’s good. It’s a big deal. 

Let’s talk about your university education. Where did you go to school and what did you study?

David Gavin (Guest): 01:17

I went to the University of Bartelswright, which was in Johannesburg, and did a general Bachelor of Arts degree. I was thinking of doing law, but my major was international relations, and my sub-majors were political science and social anthropology. Very good background. It was an extremely good experience. I had at the time, South Africa was going through challenges in terms of coming out of apartheid and it all going through the dark, darkness of apartheid. So it was amazing to be at university in a revolutionary time. Obviously, Planning for Science and International Relations and Anthropology departments were very active, you know, social activists in terms of the professors were very much involved in undercurrents and the change that was taking place in South Africa. So I had, I think, besides just the general university experience, it was eye-opening in terms of seeing a nation going through transition. And I think that’s in itself elevated me, I think, in certain ways, just in terms of being open, trying to be as objective, I think, is the right term. In terms of what my career path would be, um fellow human beings, their well-being and things like that. So yeah, it was a very interesting time and a good educational experience.

Danny Gavin (Host): 02:54

I’m sure it was crazy to be in a world where the world around you, like in some ways, was like a fake world, right? Like privileged and a beautiful life and all these things, but then on the other hand, seeing what else was going on and just kind of an interesting well, it was interesting.

David Gavin (Guest): 03:12

Yeah, it was interesting, and and don’t forget, because of the upbringing and the family that we grew up in, we were subject to um inputs from the art world. So then obviously your late grandmother, my mother, was very involved in terms of activism through art, more so than anything else. So we were exposed to it not only at university, but certainly in the art front as well, which I think was good for us. We weren’t pigeonholed and we weren’t walking around with blame pillars in terms. We had more of a global world view of how things should be. So it was instrumental in our development. I think all three boys actually.

Danny Gavin (Host): 04:01

So just to let people know, you immigrated to Canada, did it make it easier to immigrate? I know immigration is really hard, and we’ve spoken about this in the past. We’re always wondering like, was it the right move, was it not? But do you think that that helped formulate just being in those crazy times and as being a reason or a push to leave South Africa?

David Gavin (Guest): 04:20

Yeah, I think having the university, I wasn’t an activist per se, right? I did have friends that were activists, I did have friends that were arrested and incarcerated, not for a long time, but certainly were subject to the authority and it’s and how difficult it was to speak out. Yes, I felt that as much as I love and I still love South Africa, I didn’t want to be complicit, if that’s the right word, in terms of extending the current regime that was in power in terms of enabling them to continue in perpetuity skills. So I think I went to the army, unfortunately. Um, that was compulsory at the time. We had no choice but to do a two year national syllabus, which I did specifically because of my love for the country. I mean, I did want to get back. I also didn’t want to have the share of leading the country, not doing national service, and never being able to come back. Because it’s such a beautiful country, it’s not. But yeah, um, you know, as far as the order of the day, the the government that was in power at the time, it was it went country and ran, yeah, it ran against the grain in terms of it wasn’t who I was, it’s not who I am as a Protestant humanitarian inequality, if there’s is another way to describe it. Which exists in the whole world, but certainly in South Africa, it was kind of on the books service. It wasn’t a hard decision to be 29 years old and very optimistic. It was yeah, it wasn’t hard to leave until I got to the side of the world and got to North America. And having lived, as you say, in a sheltered environment where it really was a privileged environment to provide you were a white seller, then coming to the Wild West, so to speak. It wasn’t eye-opener. But having said that, I think the background, the education system, I think the discipline that South Africans generally speaking possess, and certainly in that time, stood us in good stead. We had a work ethic that I think was the main driving force, enabling us to transition into this new life of the immigrants in a new society.

Danny Gavin (Host): 06:52

I think we’re gonna talk about how you advanced in your career and just amazing about all your opportunities. And we’ll get there in a second. But let’s first talk about how you first got into, I don’t want to say like the diamond industry, but into retail and merchandising and that area, which you really are one of the experts today.

David Gavin (Guest): 07:09

Inherently, I’m an observer. I have a knack of understanding systems, which is very strange, you know. I’m not a mathematician per se. I am a right, I think, right hemisphere thinking in terms of I’m an art, you know, I’m RT, we all are RT. I think all three of us are boys in Gabby Channel. So it wasn’t so retail per se. So there was progression. So first um I got into the diamond business. Obviously, it was a family business. I worked in my dad’s company, originally doing a little bit of diamond marking and learning about soy. So it was really technical versus sales or marketing driven, which made sense because I really needed to understand the products first hand in order for me to progress and go into that next level. I branched out into my own. I left my dad and I forgot the date, I think it was 1980, 1986. I formed a company called Bar the Diamonds, and that’s your Aunt Barbara, David. By that route, we started a really just a little small wholesale loose diamond trading company. I just felt, you know, that yeah, I felt confident enough, I had enough knowledge to kind of go out on my own. So that’s really the ground zero of the beginning of my career in terms of getting to understand retail, getting to understand sales, just to learn the basics. So I was a salesman on the road, I used to run around with a bag of goods, and I used to make sales, mostly with independent jewelers. I was lucky because I had one or two friends that there was a company called Stones, which is Fernandes, the major jewelry retailer, which is now part of the Fashion group. And I had a friend that was in the diamond department. So I started to sell them these huge parcels of small malay goods because they used to buy goods. I had a contact that was from Israel that brought these goods in. He gave it to me. I had the contact, and that was kind of the entree into dealing with major jewelry retailers versus independents. So it started already in South Africa in terms of understanding the mechanics and how it works and corporate versus independent jewelry tails. Anyway, well, the first board that I had was so bad. Let’s see that I immigrated in 1989. So plus minus three years. It was a very successful business. It was making a lot of money every month. And I figured, you know, if I was able to do that, build a business in a three-year period in South Africa, which has got a very, very small industry compared to North America, I miscalculated and figured that well, it’ll be easy. I’ll come to North America and you know the world will be open to me, and everybody will welcome David with open arms. Until I got to this side of the world and realized that the competition was about a thousand pounds more intense. Yeah. There was an eye-opener and it was humbling. Same thing. I was fortunate again. I worked for Fabricant, Commonwealth Trading, which was in Toronto. It was the New York office in Toronto. I was on the road, I was a loose time salesman doing exactly the same thing. Selling independent jewelry, not any majors. So it’s just on the road, walking into the jewelry store, hi, my name’s David, is my business bar? Do you need anything? And in those days, you could do that. And then in 1989, the way that the jewelry industry worked, there was no internet, there was no following. It was a very different environment in terms of it being more engaging, you were accepted, you know, as a salesman. Okay, you know, people act harmful because there weren’t all these other destructions going on. So that was an interesting experience in terms of having an accent, not being from the country, being a foreigner, being young, being agreed, passive aggressive, I’m not an aggressive person per se, but I’m I’m tenacious and I continue to, you know, know doesn’t mean no in my world. And it proved successful, being on the road, selling, and understanding the market. Having been fortunate to be with Fabricant, which at the time was the largest general and diamond company in the world, it gave me the opportunity to grow. So they recognized that I had the ability to come off the road, find a sales position. And I was only a loose diamond salesman, I knew nothing about jewelry at all. There was an opportunity for all two million to get into finished jewelry, specifically with major jewelry at the time. So the company in Toronto was going through some transitions, they were changing, they were downsizing, they were looking to be more focused because, as you know, in business and search studying, the diamond and jewelry industry, the changes I would say from 1990 through to now 2025 had been huge, to say the least. So getting back to those days and getting back to how I got into understanding the retail landscape, I got thrust in. Really, my mentor, as you’re talking about Charles Fortgang, who was the owner of Charles, was of the mindset that you take somebody, you drop them in the middle of the ocean, if they make their way back to shore, they’re good. If they drown, they drown. Next, that was really in a nutshell the philosophy. And I was young enough and ambitious enough to take on the return. I was Spanish for information. So anything that I could learn now transitioning from a loose diamond salesman to a finished diamond salesman, a finished jewelry diamond salesman, not only dealing with independent, but now dealing with major jewelry retailers across North America. It opened up the world to me. It was very challenging. But that’s part of the process. You know, just leading yourself and working through the self-doubt because there’s always self-doubt. You know, you always think, am I doing this right? Is that right? Am I wrong? How am I doing? And I was fortunate. I managed to develop relationships with some of these major retailers, the buyers, who really took to me, liked me. I came through for them and I had insights, which they welcomed. So it wasn’t only coming to a business meeting with a bag of new designs and sitting and saying to the buyer at the time, well, he’s thinking he’s nice rings, and that’s a yes, but I went the extra mile in terms of I will go into the stores, more than one store of the same brand, to understand is the merchandising in one store sends the other. This is really just self-education, just in terms of there was no handbook, no one said, well, why don’t you go do this, why don’t you go and do that? It was just, I guess, a progression and understanding that in order for you to be globally available in terms of knowledge, you had to be manageable. So I think they understood that. They understood the fact that, oh, David went into the store because I’ll tell him, I went into the store and I introduced myself to you, store manager, or why don’t you be a retail assistant? And I walked through, I said, gee, man, I’m a bender. Can I walk through? I just want to get an understanding. I have a meeting with uh so-and-so David tomorrow at head office, and I just want to better understand the or and I looked and I understood, and I started educating myself, you know, diamond stud earrings and pandas and bridal showcases and color enlightenment showcases. And you know, there’s an array of jewelry in a jewelry store, and a lot of wholesalers focus in one area. I’m a gold salesman or I’m a diamond salesman, or you know, we decolored. So it was interesting for me to educate myself in that respect. In turn, the people that I was selling appreciated the fact that I was going the extra mile, but I wasn’t just there for a sale, that there was thought behind every meeting that we had. So, what I started doing is that even in those early days, I started thinking about concepts. And I think the key word for everybody to understand and for you maybe to take away is I focused on white space. I never wanted to compete with what the other guy was doing. I always looked for what they weren’t doing, and that proved to be successful for me. It was letting, oh, I can see the thing, I can do it, and I can do it for $100 less. It was never from that perspective. It was, I was in the store and I was wondering. I looked at your showcase and I didn’t see three stars. And the buyer would go, wow, you’re out. And I’ll tell you a very interesting story. This was at Zale, or was it a number of years ago? It was a very, very, very big meeting. It was a half-hour viewing for everybody at UC in the new year. We were working for a company at the time. I don’t know if I should mention the company or if you can’t, you can. It was Leo Schacht at the time, um, which is actually in 2014. And I had been working for them on contracts, and I had worked, been away, and then they brought me back to help facilitate some of the sales and myself building, which I’d have them trained in. And I remember you’ve got to understand in those days it was very, very, very competitive. You had every single nature site holder knocking at their door. They asked all the bees and news, so to speak, in terms of retail, no one’s the biggest thing that is, you know. We would do presentations. I was just a salesperson at the time. We had strategic thinkers that worked for us, we had marketers, we had merchandisers. So there were a lot of people collaborating with me in terms of how we are going to be submissive and how we’re gonna sell today. The day or I would say a week before, I went to their website and entered colorless into the search bar, and nothing came up. So if you know anything about diamonds, anything that’s D2F is considered color, right? And this means that now it starts going slightly colored, and comes into a commercial. So I remember in the meeting where it was going, it wasn’t going that well. And you know, we were going back and forth with concepts, and my dear is just that narrow. I remember asking the CEO at the time, I said, Oh, what’s your take? And I told you exactly what I’m saying to you. I said, I went into the website, painted colorless, and didn’t see anything come up. Said, wow, that’s kind of interesting. You know, and everybody looked around at each other, it’s like, what are you getting? You’re in that kind of still. So what I’m saying to you is that what I think has been the key to my success, is always to look for what people are not doing. Okay, they are doing. And if it’s creating a new market, then so be it. I don’t know, it’s just an innate understanding, getting back to your original question in terms of how did you get into it, how did you understand it. I looked at it, but I didn’t look at the sales portion or marketing or merchandising in a classic conservative way. It was always done with thoughts and trying to think outside of the box in order to survive. I mean, it was really more of a it was driven by fear of failure and not being successful. I think that was the driving force of it.

Danny Gavin (Host): 19:56

But I think that’s life where we often think. Just doing what I have to do is going to be enough. But really, that’s like that’s just getting to the playing field, right? And the people are the ones who stand out to think about a different concept, a strategic move, that’s really what sets you aside. It’s kind of like when I teach in the classroom, I always have like the 50% of this class that are in the middle, the 25% at the bottom, um, and the 25% at the top. Why are those 25% at the top? Is because they’re doing something extra, something special. And that’s how you can really move forward. It sounds like that’s been the theme of your profession.

David Gavin (Guest): 20:36

Yeah, absolutely can. And hard work. Oh, for that for sure. You certainly can’t, yeah, you can’t discount that. I mean, it comes with it because it takes a lot of hard work. You know, when you get to and when you’re on a sales trip and you’re flying out to a city that you don’t really know well, you’ve got to navigate this city. But I always made sure I was there a day before, made sure I was in those stores, talking to the sales associates, seeing where they feel they’re missing out in terms of products. You know, and learning from just asking simple questions and really engaging and boots on the ground and being there versus coming from an ivory tower kind of idea and sitting down and speaking to a buyer that’s sitting opposite to you, ill-informed, meaning not being informed in terms of what you’re talking about. I think that, you know, I think that you can see through somebody that’s just kind of winging, trying to wing it in the inner meeting that’s ill-informed, you know, you’re gonna lose their concentration in a few minutes, if not seconds.

Danny Gavin (Host): 21:50

So you mentioned Leo Schachter, and you mentioned before that one of your um is so Fabricant, but then also Leo Schachter. So you spoke the style that Charles had. You’ve mentioned that Elliot Tanabom has been one of your mentors as well. And he’s actually someone that I’ve met. Um would love to know because he definitely is a personality in his own way. Um, so how was he a mentor to you?

David Gavin (Guest): 22:14

When I left Fabric in 1996 and decided to go on my own, I started the Global Jam crew. I was fortunate to have met one of his Cheryl’s, that was one of his uh diamond salesmen had come to Tuaro for whatever reason they were kind of talking, and it was really everything in life is about timing. It was 1996, and I think that was the time where the DTC, the Beers, were deciding to move in the direction of Spire of Choice, where they would take their side holders and make them vertically integrated, I think, is the right route in terms of they weren’t just loose sales wholesalers any longer. The Beers thought that it made sense for them to become jewelry suppliers as well. So traditionally, the way that it worked is you had side holders that only sold diamonds and you had jewelry manufacturers, right? So there was a disconnect. But they felt uh, you know, I’m looking back in retrospect, some people will say it was the right news, some people say no, because you know, you needed manufacturers and you needed survivors. Where do you start? You know, anyway. So they needed expertise. I had just left Fabricant, which is like being at Harvard University. Once you were at Fabricant, there was no high, there’s no other school to have gotten your degree from, you know, it opens up doors. As you know, it does. If you do go to Harvard, then you look for a job. You know, I think you’re gonna go top of the list, so there was credibility there in terms of having been successful there. Them, meaning US actors at the time, were looking for people that had expert tools in terms of finished war, because they were just losing guys. So we met, we spoke, and they became our primary supplier. So, in effect, I started a company in 1999, September 1996, with a limited amount of funds, but I had Leo Shakta Vahani, the driving force, and at the time they were the largest loose exporter of diamonds in the world. I think the company at the time was worth about $760 million.

unknown: 24:40

Wow.

David Gavin (Guest): 24:41

I hate relationships when priority can’t as people that sort. You know, I was fit to go.

Danny Gavin (Host): 24:47

It was a natural fit.

David Gavin (Guest): 24:49

Wonderful. Getting back to your Christian authors and your town. Wow. Very smart individual, very, very smart man. A lot of respect for him. Very difficult boss, very demanding, but very intelligent. You know, I would I would just any time that I would have, if I could, to be with him, to share ideas and listen to his insight and his take. He was very, very, very instrumental and driven and he goes, This is our question. You look at the Leo down, I mean it was the biggest down, you know, in the world, just in terms of brand. It was unbelievable in terms of I was with them and watched the trajectory of that. It was brilliant in terms of taking, you know, taking a stone and taking it to as we’re talking to the top of the piles that are streets above everybody else. And that took a lot of initiative, insight, and the understanding of the retail landscaped time. So when you’re in a room with somebody that’s got that amount of energy, and you know, and and a very honorable, um, I I I don’t have enough words to describe in terms of just a good person. It’s just not a question about it.

Danny Gavin (Host): 26:13

So moving to today, obviously the landscape is totally different. You know, some would have said, or you know, certain industries are moving completely online, but then there’s definitely industries that are both online but in-store. How do you see the retail jewelry market now?

David Gavin (Guest): 26:30

I think, listen, we’d gone through a big transition. It’s certainly coming out of COVID. Fast-tracked. There’s no doubt about it. Fast tracked the online offering is not questioning about talking about COVID is is when I had to go through a whole nother learning curve, so to speak. You know, traditionally what I would do is I would have in the phone matter to a retailer, I would go into the office, I would merchandise, you know, pick physical styles or do drawers or whatever the case is, in order to be prepped to sit and have an hour and a half’s meeting, right? Be, you know, whoever the retainer was at the time. We weren’t allowed to travel anymore. So everything now became virtual. So I was already not very computer savvy. I mean, I wouldn’t have five, I was 59. That’s very old, just in terms of understanding and has been very computer liberated. And what ended up happening is that you now started to see our customers virtually. There was our team’s meeting setup. So that was very stressful. That was probably one of the I would say the second most stressful time in my life, immigration was the first. Secondly, I am now coming of age and understanding of where the industry is going. All of a sudden, you now have to fill an hour of content in a team meeting on a PowerPoint presentation that I don’t know how to do PowerPoint. But I didn’t have a choice. The company that I was working with at the time was a Teet Down Corporation, which is part of Shah Red Genes, they’re a big site holder out of New York City. And we had all of these meeting sales cases set up where all of a sudden you know, instead of facing one-on-one with the customer, you virtually face the name, and then you’ve got to share your screen and walk them through the concepts. It was very difficult. I mean, it was jewelry, don’t forget. You’re not talking about something that’s tangible.

Danny Gavin (Host): 28:42

And you spent 30, 40 years doing it in person. Doing it in person. So what you mastered, you mastered it.

David Gavin (Guest): 28:51

Yeah, well, that’s all that was all out the window. It was over. Right. Yeah. So it’s like, okay, you’re back at square one, you’re back in first square. It’s like, okay. Yeah, it was a lot of key slides, a lot of work, a lot of understanding. But I guess the main ingredient was there. I guess if you are innovative and creative enough, the medium, if it changes, doesn’t really matter. Because I think to your core intrinsically, you’re gonna stay true to your ability. If you have the ability, whether it’s facing somebody or being on a Zoom call or I remember those first Zoom calls were nine, you know, like I had to try and how do I share my screen and excuse me, hold on, and sweating, I literally sweating multiple people like sitting staring at you. It was pretty, it’s just scary. There’s no other way to describe it. It was very scary. But with anything, I became better at it each time that I did, and my presentations got better. And yeah, so we navigated that, and looked at what happened. You know, everybody decided that bricks and mortars, yeah, it’s gonna be gone. COVID’s come, it’s everything’s online, this, that, and the other. We do know that it was unprecedented in terms of the amount of sales that happened in 2021. People were sitting in, oh, they had nothing to do with the next goal line bust. So everybody thought the jewelry industry is like we’re in our way, you know, it’s the good times, yeah. There’s no looking back. And then the dust settled, and all of a sudden everybody understood that wasn’t real. It was a bit of a false market, but everybody took advantage of it anyway. And then we will we’re back down to the ground level again and reality set in, and everybody realized that yes, the online offering works very well, but if you don’t have a bricks and mortar space to back that up, you’re not going to be as successful as those bricks and mortars that have both omni-channels in terms of being able to do the online and install. How’s it changed? That’s how it’s changed. I think that’s beneficial for bricks and mortar stores now. You don’t have to hold the same amount of inventory as you want to do it. You can limit your in-store assortments and you can layer deep online. And I think the truth of the matter is that 85% of them say magazines are high enough to purchase and originate online.

Danny Gavin (Host): 31:30

So, from a merchandising perspective, will you actually come with a plan like this that reads like your in-store brick and mortar strategy? This is your online strategy? I don’t know.

David Gavin (Guest): 31:40

So to be, I’m gonna be very honest, uh brutally honest. The industry has changed so much because of the advent of labs. Um it’s to try and all see your question intelligently. I don’t know because we’re too early, right?

Danny Gavin (Host): 31:59

We’re like we’re in the middle of the change.

David Gavin (Guest): 32:01

We absolutely are in the middle of the change. And I’m very I mean, I’m optimistic, I’m not pessimistic at all. I mean, what you’re seeing is interesting within the industry and in terms of staying in the context of your question. As far as how do you merchandise, you know? I don’t think anyone really loves, to be honest. I think we’re all here, we’re all playing in a good game and we’re all coming to the table in terms of ideas. Everybody’s following everybody else, you know, getting back to how we started, which may be the problem, and everybody’s too scared to step outside of the line just in case they fail. So I think what you’re seeing is just that every, you know, yeah, how low can it go? So getting back to lab ground, everybody’s in it, everybody’s trying to figure out where it is going. There’s all the words now that you’re hearing, well, you know, lab ground one is going to be good for fashion because no, it’s not purchased, it’s it’s it’s cheap enough to merchandise, make a mistake, or think out of the box, you know, come with fancy shapes, whatever the case may be. Online is a great space to run with concepts that maybe are not proven, you know, it’s not like you’re layering all his product and going to print and doing all things like that, which cost money that if they fail are expensive. But if you’re doing it online, it’s really mostly digital. Doesn’t really matter. But it’s certainly a challenge. I don’t know how to answer the question. I think it’s a challenge. I think anybody that says that they’re naming it, I don’t ask so much. I’m very encouraged by what I see with the desert diamond story from the beers. I don’t think Mrs. Mani. So they decided to promote warm colours, which are brown goods and yeah, goods. And the concept behind that is that we know that the best diamond is a white diamond, you know, that there’s that’s that messaging that we’ve had well yeah. But the so getting back to lab and natural and how to merchandise, I think that they’ve kind of they aren’t too good thing in the sense that they’re talking about the importance of diamonds coming from the earth and color diamonds, diamonds that have color, have been formed under the most stress within the earth, right? I put it on. I actually posed the question to the GPT. I said, is there any difference in energy transfer from a live-grown diamond on a scena to the natural? They said, no, there isn’t because all the properties are the same, it’s more of an emotive difference. I don’t know if I agree with you because I saw an article yesterday where they’re talking about a natural diamond that you have as a piece of the earth. It’s natural, you know, light versus artificial light. There’s a difference. Not to say that they don’t bring light, but when you stand or sit in the sun and you feel that ray of light on you, you don’t feel any artificial light environment. So yeah, to a point it does affect you emotionally differently. So getting back to this designer debasement story that DTC now is gonna start promoting. I think we’ll see some uh television ads and things now, and that’s certainly into next year. It’s a good story because it’s promoting individuality, it’s I think promoting people being uh cognizant, aware, energies. You know, it’s just it’s it’s it’s a baby came on a different emotion, and I think it’s great. And from a merchandising standpoint, there’s and you can’t believe what you can do. There’s just these unbelievable designs that I’m working on now that are showcased exactly all in the talk in the bar. It’s quite amazing.

Danny Gavin (Host): 36:23

Cool.

David Gavin (Guest): 36:23

I’m excited to learn more. Yeah, that is fine.

Danny Gavin (Host): 36:28

So obviously, you’ve had to deal with a lot of change and dealing with change and adapting, some of it maybe out of your control and even what you like didn’t necessarily want, right? If you’re gonna give advice to someone naturally, change is hard for them. Like we don’t want to put ourselves into challenging situations, but by pushing ourselves, that’s how we get better. Um, what advice would you give them?

David Gavin (Guest): 36:49

I think you’ve got to know yourself. I think the most important thing is to understand who you are and being true with yourself. I think that’s where it starts. I think it starts from the point of the dealer that acknowledges your strengths, also acknowledges your weaknesses. And I think once you wear those two up, you can then take on that challenge of change. And that’s one constant that all of us face in the future. Having said that, there’s always light at the end of the town. You’ve got to hang out, you’ve got to not block out a journey, but embrace it and start understanding characteristically what’s going on. And I’ve said this to you to my kids, your cousins, on many occasions. Every experience in life, be it in work, be it at school, wherever it was in a relationship, they’re all stepping stones. They’re all teaching you something in order for you to understand, in order for you to get to that next stone. That’s really what it’s about. Because you cannot fly, play, you should, you know, be a commercial pilot if you’ve never flown a small plane. You’ve got to understand what it’s like to take off, you know, all got a turbine, and be in a stressful situation. You have to have those training wheels in order to get you to be able to ride the bike without the little training wheels. And that’s what changes experience and these insurmountable, seemingly insurmountable challenges that we all face, be it in personal relationships, be it in business. It’s really the same. But how do you do that? You’ve got to stay leanal-headed. I mean, the truth of the matter is that everybody, you know, the fear factor is, you know, when you’re thinking from a point of fear and making decisions, I think they say you shouldn’t make decisions when you’re very scared or when you’re very happy. You know, you’ve got to find the balance in between in order to make sure that you’re not personalizing it and making sure that you’re remaining objective in order to get to that decision. So, what was my suggestion? Yeah, you’ve got to understand yourself. You’ve got to focus on your positives, you’ve got to acknowledge your oldnesses, and those are the things that you can work on in order to push you through. I don’t know, it sounds pretty theoretical when I’ll play it back. But you know, doing those yoga teacher training at 200 and 300 hours, you spend a lot of time on yourself. That’s what it teaches you. You know, to find stillness in pain, to settle it. You know, there’s no quick solution.

Danny Gavin (Host): 39:54

No, I think what you just shared is a beautiful perspective and a very real perspective. And obviously, it’s something that we all have to work on, right?

David Gavin (Guest): 40:03

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host): 40:03

Like sort of like that’s the map, that’s the plan. It’s a good one. And it takes work, right? Self-introspection, dealing through those times. But I know I am you, you said it beautifully.

David Gavin (Guest): 40:15

Well, it’s interesting because Yobi teaches you at night, you know. So I’d started Yobi late in life when I was 50. So, you know, 50 years old is the nice thing about body mechanics. There’s a lot of bad habits that we all work and sit through. So, in order to do certain poses, it can take you two years to be able to master a pose. But when you get there, it’s this aha moment, right? It’s like but it’s perseverance, you know, every day doing the same, doing the same. And little by little, it’s just a progression that goes and goes and goes. So getting back to your Christian, yeah, you’ve got to just hang here and you’ve got to be able to stand in the fire. I think that’s another way they’ve turned, you know, you’ve got to take your feet and be able to see it stand there because eventually it will die down and things settle down, and that’s when the clarity comes.

Danny Gavin (Host): 41:17

I’m glad you mentioned yoga, because now it’s time for our fab five. I’m gonna talk about a different category and would love to hear what’s your favorite thing and a short idea of why. So let’s start with your favorite artist. Visual artist. Yeah, visual artist.

David Gavin (Guest): 41:35

I liked Andy War because I think he took common day iconic imagery and turned it into art. And he was the first AI artist, and it resonated with him that cable soup can, you know. And then when he did, you know, all of Marilyn Monroe and all of these kinds of iconic rock styles and new styles. Yeah, he knows for sure. I would say, yeah, he sticks out. There’s a lot though. I mean, I studied all at school, so you know, we could go back to which time period he’s talking about. He’s talking about the casso, he’s talking about cuism, he’s talking about impressionism, post-impressionism, Paulism. I mean, I’ve done it, but yeah, I would say he sticks out for me, for sure.

Danny Gavin (Host): 42:26

All right, what about musicians or bands?

David Gavin (Guest): 42:28

Growing up in a family of musicians, Jimi Hendrix. I mean, because yeah, if you know anything about music and see what you could do at a tar and how talking about being innovative and doing what everybody else isn’t doing, I would imagine he fits the ball for me. But they’re too many. I mean, I could go on and on, but yeah, he sticks out, he’s not a question, and he’s not easy to listen to, Read. You know, no, telling your stuff’s heavy, but I would say Julie. And what about movies? Movie Apocalypse now. I don’t know why. I’ve watched that many times. Oh, that’s hilarious. Apocalypse now and pop fiction. I watched it at nine, that’s amazing. Yes, brilliant. Yeah, every time I watch that news, it gets better.

Danny Gavin (Host): 43:26

That’s so cool. And then finally, when you’re not working, what’s your outside of yoga, like on an afternoon, what would you like to do?

David Gavin (Guest): 43:35

Take my dog and go walking in a ravine. And if I’m by the ocean, it would be walking on without a doubt. And if I’m in the mountains, in the mountains, yeah. Earthy. Just keeping at some power.

Danny Gavin (Host): 43:51

All right. Well, this has been so awesome. Cool. I know. So, where can listeners connect with you if they want to get in touch?

David Gavin (Guest): 44:01

Well, my website’s not great, so it can either be LinkedIn, I’m on there, or if they want, they can send me an email, david at davidegreg.com. He’s got nine thoughts. By all means, I’m more than happy to answer any questions. If somebody wants to talk to you with something lovely, cool.

Danny Gavin (Host): 44:19

Well, David, thank you for being an awesome guest.

David Gavin (Guest): 44:22

You never know how you come across, but the truth of the matter is that it’s authentic. Like this is what it is, this is who I am. Like, if I’m talking to you, if we worked on this podcast, I’d be talking to you in the same vein.

Danny Gavin (Host): 44:35

Same way. And so we each have a quilt, a tapestry of our life, right, that we’ve created. And I think that’s what’s so cool. It doesn’t have to be any certain way. Literally, the story, your story is special, and people can learn a lot of different points from it.

David: 44:50

Yeah.

Danny Gavin (Host): 44:50

Thank you, listeners, for tuning into the Digital Marketing Mentor. We’ll speak with you next time. Thank you for listening to the Digital Marketing Mentor Podcast. Be sure to check us out online at thedor.com and at the DM Mentor on Instagram. And don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts for more Marketing Mentor magic. See you next time.