081: Powered By Psychology: Jyll’s Guide to Google Ads, Audience Targeting & Mentorship

Episode Transcript: Jyll Saskin Gales 

 

Danny Gavin Host

00:05

Hello, I’m Danny Gavin, founder of Optidge, marketing professor, and the host of The Digital Marketing Mentor. Today we have Jyll Saskin Gales , who is a Google Ads coach that can be found at jyll.ca. Today we welcome Jyll, who is a former Google employee who spent 6 years helping major businesses leverage Google’s insights and advertising. Since then, she’s turned her expertise into a thriving career as a Google Ads coach, consultant and content creator, sharing her wisdom through workshops, her own platforms, speaking events and so much more. With a wealth of experience and a knack for making digital marketing accessible, Jyll is here to help us navigate the world of Google Ads. Today, we’re going to talk about trends and coaching, building a personal brand, online content creation, repurposing and, of course, just a lot about Google ads. How are you, Jyll? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

01:09

I’m doing great, Danny. Thanks, how are you doing? 

Danny Gavin Host

01:12

I’m doing really great. It’s so nice that we got to meet a couple months ago at a conference, so I got to meet you in real life, and it’s just so cool that we get to sit together today and chat. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

01:22

Yes, I’m really looking forward to it, especially after seeing you in person in California. 

Danny Gavin Host

01:26

All right. So, Jyll, where did you go to school and what did you study? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

01:35

I went to Tufts University in Massachusetts for undergrad and studied psychology and child development, and while I loved studying that, I realized pretty quickly that I didn’t actually want to work with kids all day. So I went into journalism and then went to Harvard Business School to get my MBA before landing in marketing. 

Danny Gavin Host

01:48

Amazing. So a lot of people ask me, “What is there? You know what’s a good undergrad to get when you’re deciding that you want to go into marketing, do you feel like, after the fact, psychology was a good choice? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

01:57

Psychology was a good choice because it really built those kinds of research like developing a hypothesis, improving it, skills, and then it’s also just about understanding people. But I would say like any background can be a background that works for marketing. Even when I worked at Google, you know there were people on the team who used to be lawyers and then worked there, people who never went to university, went to college and then came to Google. So any background can serve you well for a career in marketing. 

Danny Gavin Host

02:22

Yeah, I agree that’s very, very fair. So you know, Harvard Business School is a big name. Is that something you always wanted to do or you kind of just fell into it? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

02:30

You know it’s funny. I applied to Harvard Business School during my last year in college and got accepted while I was still an undergrad and my friends joked that I was like the business Elle Woods. I woke up one day like maybe I’ll go to Harvard. So it was a bit random that I decided to apply and was fortunate to get accepted. But I will say my father went to Harvard Business School and so I grew up, you know, around the dinner table hearing stories about the case method and what business school was like. 

02:55

I just never really connected it to myself until I was getting to the end of my university career, still had no idea what I wanted to do when I grew up. So I just applied. You know what I have got to lose, except some hours on an application. And once I was accepted, the deal was I had to go work for two years first before I could go get my MBA. So by the time I started I was one of, if not the youngest in my class and I just was a sponge for those two years of my MBA program, learned so much and it was a really great experience. 

Danny Gavin Host

03:25

So cool. And that requirement of having to work for two years. Was that a requirement from Harvard? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

03:31

It was. So I was part of actually what at the time was a brand new program called 2 Plus 2. And the idea was that Harvard Business School wanted to reach out and recruit more people who wouldn’t typically consider an MBA. Like once you go off into the workforce, it’s really different thinking about going back to school. So they heavily recruited, not at Tufts but trying to get undergrads from diverse backgrounds, from underrepresented backgrounds, to apply to business school so that if we accept you before you even graduate from undergrad, you can go into the workforce knowing you’re coming back in two years. So I definitely don’t think I would have ended up at Harvard without that program and it was a really nice way for me and for a lot of other different kinds of people to get into that MBA pipeline who weren’t coming from, you know, consulting or finance yeah, that’s so cool. 

Danny Gavin Host

04:14

So I also did my MBA, like right after undergrad, and thank god I was working during that time. So I was in a full-time program and I was, like you know, I was like a real typical student. Typical students like me just need to study and do that. And it was one or two years after I got married and my wife’s like you’re not sitting at home and just studying, you need to go work. So I ended up working, but thank God I did because I had no luck, in order to really go through an MBA program, you gotta have some work experience, because if you don’t, it just doesn’t. So that’s cool that they made you do it. I think it’s a wonderful requirement. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

04:45

It is, and it was interesting because, you know, Harvard Business School is not the only business school that uses the case method, but they’re the ones who kind of pioneered it, and the premise is in the class, you know, the teacher’s not lecturing. The teacher presents a case, you prepare it the night before or the week before and in class you’re really learning from your classmates, and so it was really interesting. You know, I was pretty cocky growing up, always thought I was really smart and was used to feeling like, oh, I’m the smartest in the room, you know. And then I get to this room with 90 classmates in my section and I’m like wow, everyone here is not only older, more experienced than me, they’re all smarter than me. 

05:17

Maybe for the first time in my life I listened and that was a really important experience for me, I think personally as well as professionally just the power like shutting up and listening and learning from the much deeper experience everyone around me had. And it wasn’t until like later, my first year, that I started talking more. I mean, when I first got there I was like yeah, then I thought you know what, Jyll? These people have a lot more to say than you. Maybe you should just bring it down a level and listen and learn from others, and I’m really glad I did so. You know I was not a standout student by any means at Harvard Business School, but grades don’t matter in business school. I got the education I needed and the practical experience I needed and the social experience I needed and it has set me up really well in my career. 

Danny Gavin Host

05:58

Any other stories inside or outside of the classroom that you feel like set you up for success later on. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

06:04

You know, outside of the classroom I had a friend. He lived in the dorm next door to me two years in a row and he was a few years older and he was married by the time business school started. I was single and actually met my husband in business school, and dating had always been a little bit challenging for me, shall we say. I’m sure all the single women can relate, probably the single men and others as well and so he was sort of I don’t want to call him my dating guru, that sounds weird, but he gave me some like very pointed feedback early on in my business school career, just about the way I was presenting myself and interacting with others. He asked permission first, which I appreciated, but it was just feedback that I’d never received before, and so in business school we think of this feedback environment. You get a lot of professional feedback, but getting that kind of personal feedback was very helpful to me, and I mean I did find my husband there shortly afterwards. So there you go. 

Danny Gavin Host

06:58

That’s so cool. I know it’s not a dating podcast, but one bit of advice you could give to those dating. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

07:02

Oh gosh, I never was. I never had to use the apps like I’ve met my husband before the swiping and all that became a thing. So that is something where I am now humble enough to say I am in no position to give advice. No-transcript. When you’re picking a partner, if you’re someone who intends to have kids one day, then really think about your partner as someone who you want to co-parent with and it’s almost like running a business with. It’s not just like, oh, I love that we’re going to have fun, I mean, that is what it’s like. But then later in life, you know, when you’re running a household together, you know, are you compatible potentially in that way? So that’s what I’d encourage those daters out there to think about. 

Danny Gavin Host

07:47

That is so valuable. I’m glad you mentioned that. Really good. How do you define a mentor? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

07:52

My job these days is as a Google Ads coach. So I think being a coach is absolutely part of mentorship. But I think another really important part of mentorship is kind of being a mirror, being able to reflect back to people what they already know. You know, being that sounding board kind of the way some of my friends in business school were for me. So I think it’s really important. A mentor isn’t someone who tells you what to do. They’re someone who might help show you the way but, almost more importantly, help you realize you already know the way. You just need a bit of a nudge to get onto that path. 

Danny Gavin Host

08:23

You know, what’s interesting is there are a lot of people that you think are mentors, but like they like to tell you what to do, right, so you kind of have to find someone with a lot of experience, but also, like they can kind of I don’t want to use the word shut up, but yeah, you know, be quiet, actually listen and push you in the right direction. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

08:37

Whether in my job as a coach, where, of course, I’ll be more prescriptive in the coaching session that’s what you’re paying me for or in more informal times when I’ve been a mentor. I found the times when I just close my mouth and listen are the times when I’m then able to have a bigger impact for that person, and that’s absolutely a skill I learned in business school that I did not have before then. Sorry to all my friends before then. 

Danny Gavin Host

09:00

It’s okay, it’s always time to change. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

09:03

Yeah, yeah. 

Danny Gavin Host

09:04

So let’s talk about some of your most influential mentors, namely Todd Moffin, I think, and Eric Morris. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

09:11

Yeah, Todd Moffin, if he were to listen to this, he probably would not consider himself my mentor, and if Eric Morris were to listen, he probably wouldn’t either. So I think that’s an important thing to say. You know, in order for someone to be your mentor, it doesn’t need to be hello. Will you please be my mentor? Yes, I will be your mentor, but it doesn’t need to be hello. Will you please be my mentor? Yes, I will be your mentor, but these are two individuals who have had a significant impact in my career and, at certain points, had a real stake in guiding my career, and that’s why I consider them mentors. 

09:35

Todd is the host of the Today in Digital Marketing newsletter and podcast, which I highly recommend if you’re interested in marketing, and he’s someone who I met on TikTok a few years ago. 

10:01

He had seen one of my videos, stitched it and then we just dropped into the DMs, started talking, and he has opened a lot of doors for me in my career. He had me on his podcast, but also I just finished writing my first book, and Todd’s published a book before the years. I launched my podcast a year ago and when I was trying to get my first sponsor, Todd was the one I called for advice on what a sponsorship package could look like. I’ve been starting to get into more speaking. Todd has had a career where he was a paid professional speaker and he keeps encouraging me every couple of times we talk Jyll, when are you going to let me introduce you to a speaking agent? So I appreciate that he really not only sees the potential in me but will just push me and say, like you know, you can do this and how can I help you kind of get to that next level. So that has been and continues to be very valuable for me. 

Danny Gavin Host

10:37

That’s so interesting because when you describe that relationship, it sounds like he would know that he’s your mentor. Why do you think he’s not? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

10:43

He absolutely is my mentor, but I’ve never used that word in conversation with him and I will say it goes the other way as well. Like Todd will ask me for advice about certain things that I’ve done that he hasn’t. It really is a two-way relationship that way. You know I am a Google Ads correspondent for his podcast. You know he comes and guests in my course, so I think we both offer a lot of value to each other, professionally and personally. And that’s really nice. The power of the Internet is that you can meet someone through TikTok and then have this outsized impact on their personal and professional life. 

Danny Gavin Host

11:14

Yeah, and it just stresses the fact that you said before, like you can have these mentorship relationships even if you don’t actually say, hey, do you want to be my mentor? Right, but it’s about finding the person who can do those things. It’s not necessarily that you have to give them a title or a label. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

11:28

Yeah, exactly, exactly so. I think Todd will have a good chuckle when he listens to this and hears that he’s one of my mentors. 

Danny Gavin Host

11:35

Awesome. So what about Eric? Tell me about him. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

11:37

Yeah, Eric Morris, again, probably would not consider himself my mentor Haven’t even spoken to him in a few years but when I worked at Google, he was actually the person who ultimately made the decision to hire me at Google. Even though I didn’t report to him directly, I had this cool role. When I worked at Google. I was part of the large customer sales team and I was an international growth consultant, so I was part of a global team. I reported to a manager in the US, but I was the only person doing my job in Canada and so every day I was working with the teams at Google Canada and Eric managed those teams. And you know, when I first got to Google, I had dabbled in Google ads a little before, but you do not need Google ads experience to get a job at Google. In case you didn’t know that, and because I was part of this global team that was all based in Europe and the US and I was the only one in Canada is based in Europe and the US and I was the only one in Canada. It was just a really tricky position to be in. Like when my team was formed. My team got 15 headcount. 14 were existing Googlers who transferred to this international team and I was the only new Googler and I floundered a little in the beginning, if I’m honest. It was summertime and I was trying to ramp up and figure things out and I was not having much impact. You know my first month or two. 

12:45

But Eric really took me under his wing and brought me into his team and made himself like my honorary manager. We’d have regular check-ins, he would review my work but, most importantly, he would push me and challenge me. Like Eric is really tough. He’s the kind of leader who really expects you to know your numbers and know your business and, more importantly, know your client’s business. And so you know you could not BS your way through a meeting with Eric and I needed someone to kind of call me on my BS and say, like no, Jyll, you can do better than this. 

13:16

Like, come back to me when you have something of real value to deliver. Not in a mean way, in an encouraging way, like come back when you have something of value to deliver. So that’s something I really appreciated professionally and then personally as well. You know, at the time I was still in my twenties, I didn’t have kids yet. A lot of people on that team of Google were in a similar place and Eric really fostered this environment where we’d have these great team activities and off sites and things. And Eric always invited me and he didn’t have to like it came out of his budget, you know, to invite me to someone who was not part of his headcount, but that was something that helped me really personally and professionally to excel at Google and so that’s something I really appreciated as well. 

Danny Gavin Host

13:57

So his ability to be a straight shooter. Can you expand a little bit more on how his honesty and transparency helped shape your perspective on performance and personal growth and maybe even how you might deal with people today? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

14:09

In roles that I have had before. I’ll say this carefully. It was really easy to just walk into a meeting with my manager with zero preparation, answer some questions, say things are going great and move on. But that would not fly with Eric, because I guess he knew the business so well that even at the senior level he was at, he expected you to know it as well. And so knowing that he had those high expectations, not just for me but for everyone on his team, meant that we all felt I don’t want to say pressure, I guess, yeah, pressure to meet those high expectations he set for us. So it wasn’t that he was trying to drill us or make us feel insecure. It was like I hired you because I know that you’re the kind of person who can deliver top performance and top results. So you better meet me there, you know, and that that was something that I really appreciate and that I absolutely think of now, whether it’s with my coaching clients who are, you know, agencies trying to acquire new clients, or, you know, the small business owner trying to make it work. 

15:08

You know when do I need to employ a more Eric-like you know tact of being really direct and straight and challenging versus when. Do I maybe need to lean into a totally different methodology of being more like a best friend? Yeah, let’s have our small talk and this and that. Like Eric, meetings did not have small talk. Meeting starts straight to business and you know now, with some of my clients, that’s absolutely what I do. With others it’s not what I do, but I have definitely learned how to do that more effectively having had a mentor like Eric. 

Danny Gavin Host

15:39

So, being a Google Ads coach, I assume a lot of it is actually coaching, but you’re saying there is room to be more of a mentor and leading people rather than tell them what to do. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

15:47

Yeah, it really depends on the client. You know, some people will just book the call with me and they have a list of questions they need answered and they answer them and good day, and I never see them again, a-okay. There are other people, especially freelancers and people who work at agencies and actually some people at agencies who, like they’re the team lead at their agency, who I meet with more regularly, either monthly or bi-weekly, and so well, of course we talk about tactical Google ads things we also then get into. You know, how would you approach this situation? Or you know, here’s a challenge I’m facing in this client management. Can we talk through some potential approaches? 

16:22

And so that’s where, even in my job as a coach, it can veer more into mentorship. And then there are people who are not coaching clients at all, who I get to mentor. You know I have a wonderful assistant in my business, my right-hand woman, who makes everything happen, and I mentor her as well, and you know she has shared with me how much I’ve helped her grow in her business that she’s running as well. So that’s also very rewarding, even beyond just the Google Ads coaching. 

Danny Gavin Host

16:47

Cool. So talk about mentorship. What are the three keys to mentorship success? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

16:52

Three keys to mentorship success. Well, I think the first thing and again something that was instilled in me back in business school is to ask more questions. It can be really tempting when someone’s coming to you asking for you to mentor them, to get them advice, do this and do that, and here’s what you should do, but I find the most effective relationships I have with mentees are when they actually do most of the talking rather than me doing all the talking, and then, I guess, kind of a build on that. The second thing is that I like to think of myself and a mentor as a mirror reflecting back to you. You know, I’m not some wise oracle on a hill who magically has all the answers. I may have some of the answers, but it’s really important to me to let my mentees find their own way. You know I’m here to shine a light, to guide, to reflect, but it’s so much more effective if someone can be brought to a conclusion themselves versus just being told what to do, and so that’s something that I really try to think about as well in mentorship. And then I guess the third one, which we spoke about a little earlier, is just bringing the energy that the mentee needs. 

17:58

You know there are some people for whom straight to the point or tough love is going to work. There are others who want to talk about feelings and emotions and that’s going to help them do a better job. And so you know, I would never want to ask one of my mentees to adapt themselves to me, their mentor. It’s the other way around. Like I need to read the room, you know, reflect back and then position myself and react to them in a way that will be most helpful, and it can be. You know, sometimes in a meeting I’ll swear a lot to match the energy of the person I’m with, because that’s something that builds trust and rapport, whereas there are other clients I would not swear at all. That would be an absolute, that would kill the vibe, you know. So it’s just those little things of picking up what’s going to make someone feel more comfortable and trying to, of course, not change my personality but just adapt and flex into different areas of myself so that I can be what they need to advance and grow. 

Danny Gavin Host

18:54

I love that recipe. Those three ingredients are very, very good. Tasty recipe, very tasty. I’m hungry so I’m fasting today, so that’s why I’m thinking about food, you know. So, given your history at Google, could you share what initially drew you to Google Ads and how your experience at Google shaped your approach to advertising? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

19:10

What initially drew me to Google Ads was actually a previous business I ran. I worked as a side hustle as an MBA admissions consultant. So this is something I did while at Viacom and then while at Google, before starting this business I would help people apply to business school, kind of edit their essays and coach them and things like that. And so when I was running that business I dabbled a little in AdWords, as it was called, then did not see any results, as often happens with new advertisers and then ended up applying to Google, again on a whim kind of a theme in my career. But I was working in New York at the time. My husband, who was British, could no longer work in the States, so we decided we were going to move back to Canada. I had no idea what I was going to do for work in Toronto because, although I grew up here, I hadn’t lived here in a decade and I saw that Google had an office here and I’ve always loved Google products and thought why don’t I just apply? What’s the worst that could happen? And I was just right placed. I applied to one role, didn’t get that one, but then interviewed for another role. I didn’t get that one, but then interviewed for another role, and then my resume landed on Eric’s desk because they happened to be trying to find someone who could fill this international growth consultant thing, and so once I worked at Google, then I was like, oh, I better learn Google Ads. 

20:27

Initially resisted, though, and that’s what’s really interesting about it. Google, you know, it’s a sales team, and so in order to sell Google ads, it’s not a prerequisite to use Google ads, and so I was using all the fancy tools and resources and narratives we had. But it wasn’t until I’d been at Google for about four months that I asked a friend of mine on the team for some help coming up with opportunities for a client meeting, and we had various tools to do this. But she said well, Jyll, like what did you see in the account? I’m like what do you mean? She’s like what did you see in the account? I’m like what do you mean? She’s like we’ll open up their account to find opportunities. 

20:59

And I was like how do I open up their account? She’s like Jyll, you’ve worked here for four months. Are you telling me you’ve never opened a client’s Google Ads account? I’m like well, that wasn’t part of the training. No one ever. I have this dashboard and this tool. So she showed me how to open an account. I could open any Google Ads account in the world while I was with Google, fun fact. But we opened my client’s account and she just started walking me through navigating the interface like a wizard seemingly at the time, showing me all the places she was looking and all these opportunities she was finding. And something clicked in me and I got this new excitement like, oh my gosh, this makes sense to my brain, I can do this. And I became obsessed. And then I became one of the few people on my team, on my international team, who actually opened Google Ads and used Google Ads, and I’ve just been hooked ever since. 

Danny Gavin Host

21:46

That’s so cool. Can you discuss a particularly challenging project that you’ve worked on and what you learned from it? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

21:51

I would say it would be launching my Inside Google Ads membership course. I launched that after I’d been in business about a year, so I left Google in May 2021, started posting videos on TikTok, and ended up going viral after 10 days and that’s how my business began. I was managing ads for people, but I knew pretty quickly that I didn’t want my business to be a business of, like me, managing ads for clients. I did not like client management. Like there’s a reason, you know, I wanted to get away from that and people kept asking me to launch a Google Ads course. You know, Jyll, you explained things so well. Can you make a course? And I thought, why would I do that? Google Skill Shop exists. That’s what I’d say every time. Google already has courses, why would I do it? And then I decided I wanted to become a Google partner, and in order to become a Google partner, you need to get certified. So I went and did the certifications and thought, oh my gosh, these are terrible. I get what everyone’s been saying now. These are terrible. I get why people have been asking me for a course and I decided to build one and I launched it. 

22:48

It was 2-2-22, February 2nd 2022, I picked as my launch date, and so I think you know one of the really challenging things about that was just getting over the imposter syndrome of what business do I have launching a Google Ads course and instead thinking you know what? This doesn’t need to be the fanciest course, it doesn’t need to be the most advanced course, but I know now from the work I’m doing that I have something valuable to teach people. So you know that was number one. Number two was getting over the hurdle of I had never launched a course. 

23:18

At that time I didn’t know anyone who’d launched a course. I didn’t know there were courses you could take about launching a course. So I was just figuring it all out as I went, and that was when I developed my mantra that is better than perfect. You know this lesson. I may say I’m in awe of it, and this landing page may be ugly, but you know what? And this landing page may be ugly, but you know what? Done is better than perfect. Let’s launch it and we can just fix it later. I learned a lot through that process. The course has evolved a lot since then, but I’m really glad I did it. There absolutely was a place in the market for a new Google, let’s course, and I’ve had more than 400 people join since then, so I’m very glad I just did it. 

Danny Gavin Host

23:54

Are you still on TikTok? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

23:58

I am still on TikTok, though I would say it’s not my primary platform, the way it used to be. I still post short form video content two to three times a week on TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, YouTube and LinkedIn. I knew I was going to forget one, but over the last year I’ve become much more interested in and focused on, LinkedIn as my primary platform rather than TikTok as my primary platform. But, that being said, I repurpose, repurpose, repurpose like crazy. So you know, every TikTok video gets reused in many ways. Every LinkedIn post gets reused in many ways. Tiktok isn’t my favorite core social media platform the way it used to be. 

Danny Gavin Host

24:35

So for someone just starting out, let’s say, if they wanted to start a course or really, it’s really about any business. What would you say are some of the first steps they should take to establish a solid online presence? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

24:45

Before you figure out what you want to offer, figure out who you want to talk to. It’s so tempting to say, like I want to start a business, what should my product be? Or I want to speak with, who do I want to work with? And then, once you pick your target audience, you can say what problem do I want to solve for them? And then, once you have an audience and a problem you want to solve, your offer and the way you market it becomes much more clear. So that’s one piece of advice I would give is to start with the customer and your offer, and what you’re going to do comes so much later in the process. And I think one more piece of advice I’ll give is you do not need to do everything everywhere all at once when you’re creating content. 

25:23

There’s written content and there’s video content, and I know Instagram and Pinterest have image-based content, but even that I’d consider it’s either written or it’s a video. So are you more comfortable writing or are you more comfortable recording video? I would say most people encounter its writing. So just start with that. Start on a text-based platform. Try to post once a week. Okay, you can do that consistently now. Try to post twice a week. And then, once you have a library of 12 to 20 posts, guess what? You read that post to camera and boom, you have a video. So just start in one place and then you can expand and reuse and repurpose over and over again. But that whole engine doesn’t start unless you just post the dang content. 

Danny Gavin Host

26:03

Yeah, I find a lot of people have that issue of just getting to start and it’s weird because, like for us who are posting multiple times a week, it’s like a no-brainer to just post once a week, but for most people it’s like this hill that they just don’t even know, like you mean, I actually need to post once a week, but for most people it’s like this hill that they just don’t even know, like you mean, I actually need to post once a week. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

26:19

It’s crazy and actually something you can even do before that. If the idea of posting something on LinkedIn or uploading a YouTube video is terrifying, then just start by commenting intelligently on other people’s posts. So maybe you go through your feed and don’t comment. You know rocket emoji exclamation marks and be done like, share a thoughtful response to someone else’s post, or do a stitch or a video reply to someone else’s video. I call that. It’s like you know, when you walk into a dinner party, you hopefully don’t walk into the front door and say hello, my name is Jyll, come by my courses. Like you walk in the door, you approach a group that’s already talking and you listen and you see what they’re talking about and you may add a thought or two as you join the conversation. And it’s the same in social platforms. Join those existing conversations. Do that to understand the lay of the land, to understand what people are talking about, where the gaps are, and then you can start to build your own original content from there. 

Danny Gavin Host

27:18

So you may be biased with this specific question, but what role does paid advertising play in building a brand online, especially for startups or small companies? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

27:22

businesses Very little. They are not biased very much. When you’re first getting started. Even though I make a living teaching people about Google ads, I would say Google ads have no place. When you’re just starting a business, ads should be the fuel on your organic fire. So you know, if you have the budget to test your messaging and test your creativity with ads by all means, but most people do not have the budget to do that. So test organically first whether that’s social media, whether that’s your SEO, whether it’s literally like going out and talking to people, whether it’s joining Slack groups and commenting and asking questions there. Start organically, find what resonates and then put ad dollars behind what resonates. 

28:00

You know, when I got started on TikTok, initially I didn’t post on TikTok because I didn’t think anyone there cared about Google ads. But then one day I was scrolling, scrolling and this video came up from someone who was like an e-commerce influencer, I guess. But she had done this one video about Google ads and extensions, as they were called and it had 10,000 views and it blew my mind that 10,000 people on TikTok in April 2021 watched a video about ad extensions. Okay, there’s space for me here. And the first video I posted on TikTok, I think, got like 100 views and I was over the moon, so that 10 days later, when I posted a video that got 100,000 views overnight, it was just like, okay, I’ve really hit on something here, yeah, yeah, but you got to just post the content. 

Danny Gavin Host

28:45

So what about the counter argument that organic just takes a while, sometimes people don’t go viral and therefore try out paid because the results will be a little bit more quick. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

28:56

That can work. I guess the counterpoint I would say is, if your organic content is not resonating and by that I mean it’s not reaching your target audience, or it’s reaching your target audience but not motivating them to take action then why would putting money behind it do any better? You know that’s good. So if you want to put it up again, if you have the budget to put paid behind your unproven offer and your unproven messaging to test it, by all means go ahead and do so. But most of the business owners who I meet with when I do some more marketing coaching rather than Google Ads coaching, or they book the Google Ads coaching call and I say actually I don’t think you should run Google Ads. It’s because they haven’t validated who their target audience is, they haven’t validated the messaging that resonates with them, or they maybe have done those two things, but then the offer doesn’t meet the expectation Eight times out of 10, the way to have a higher ROAS, a higher return on investment in Google ads, has nothing to do with Google ads. 

29:53

It’s having a better website, it’s having a better offer and that’s going to make your ads seem more profitable. So if you want to spend money on ads from day one by all means go for it. Time and time again, I see that one of the most common mistakes that new business owners make is saying, oh, I have to run ads when they haven’t put the fundamentals in place yet, and so it’s just like lighting their money on fire. 

Danny Gavin Host

30:13

So, as a content creator, how do you balance providing value while also promoting your services? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

30:18

I’m of the camp that you should give it all away for free, that knowledge wants to be free and that knowledge on its own is not valuable. Expertise is valuable and being able to personalize that knowledge for your own situation is what’s valuable. So that’s why I share everything I know for free online, and that is like honey that attracts all the bees. So that’s why I share everything I know for free online, and that is like honey that attracts all the bees. So then people come to me every single day dropping into my inbox. Can I hire you? Can I hire you? Can I hire you? 

30:45

It’s not the only way to build a business. You know, I’ve talked to other people who want to do what I do, do not want to create content at all, and that’s fine. Like, for example, I have one friend. He also used to work at Google and he left and he does not want to be a content creator. So he went on Upwork and he was able to stand out there and completely built his own business getting clients on Upwork, whereas for me, when I tried Upwork, I didn’t get a single client, you know. So different strategies can work for different people. But if content creation is the thing that you want to do, then you just got to put yourself out there. Share a ton of value, demonstrate your expertise and the people will hire you, either for the execution or to personalize that expertise to their situation, or because they want to save time by not doing it themselves. But giving it all away for free is my mentality when it comes to your expertise. 

Danny Gavin Host

31:34

So a little bit earlier you spoke about kind of figuring out who you want to go after. So do you have some advice about helping people determine who to target and then how to segment their audiences? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

31:45

The first piece of advice I would give is to go really super specific with who you want to reach. That’s another common mistake. I see oh, my target audience is moms. Like that’s a lot of people if you’re trying to target all moms. And so it was something I thought about when I was launching my Inside Google Ads course. Like, who is the target customer for this course? Because it’s not for just anyone who would want to run ads, and if you try to pick too many target customers, you know you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one, unless you’re Coca-Cola or L’Oreal. 

32:16

So for me at least, when I launched the course, I decided to have two very specific customers in mind, and I chose them because, based on my content and my clients, I knew that that’s who I was resonating with and I don’t resonate with everyone. And so one was small business owners who have been working with an agency or freelancer to manage their ads, but it’s expensive and it’s not getting the results they want, and so they want to gain the confidence to manage their ads on their own. That’s a really specific audience, right? It’s not just small business owners. And then the second audience I started with was meta ads practitioners, whose clients are asking them to offer Google ad services as well, and so they want to add Google ad services to their portfolio. So two really different audiences, two very specific audiences, and now I have, you know, members who are much more than that. 

33:04

But that’s what I really started with and created content to resonate with initially. So I’d say, the more specific you are with who you’re trying to reach, the more likely you are to have your content resonate with them. Because now, if I’m a small business owner and I just see content like all small businesses should use Google Ads, okay, yeah, whatever. But if I see a video of like, if you’re a small business owner feeling overwhelmed by Google Ads you’re debating, can I really do this myself? You know I’m here to tell you you can like wow, that speaks exactly to me. Okay, I’m going to tune in. So it’s better to speak to fewer people but speak to them really well, rather than, you know, trying to speak to everyone. When you’re trying to initially define that audience, specificity is key. 

Danny Gavin Host

33:46

But I think it makes so much sense. But it’s easy to say once you’ve been successful. I think it’s hard at the beginning to niche down, don’t you think so? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

33:55

I agree. I actually just had a call about this yesterday with someone who’s booked two coaching calls with me because she wants to do what I do, like. So it wasn’t Google ads coaching. She’s a Google ads practitioner who wants to start her own business and she was having the same conversation and said, no, I handed a niche down, so maybe my niche will be Google ads for lead generation, like, that’s not a niche. Every Google Ads practitioner is either e-commerce or lead generation. Go deeper, go deeper, you know. 

34:19

So we looked at what the different kinds of clients she’s worked with are. What industry expertise does she have? Which ones does she enjoy working with? Which ones does she not enjoy working with? And so through that I won’t reveal what the niches that we chose, but it was like a very specific industry where she’s had a few clients, has this really deep expertise and understanding, and she has a personal connection to that industry. That really resonates and I’m like, well, because of the personal story you have here and the experience you can have, anyone in that industry who comes across you they’re going to hire you. And then anyone else who comes across you maybe they’ll hire you, maybe you won’t, but you’re going to speak so specifically there, it’s going to be great. So I know it can feel scary when you’re trying to start a business to narrow the pool, but by narrowing the focus you’ll be able to see much more clearly and people will be able to see you much more clearly if they’re your target audience. 

Danny Gavin Host

35:11

But when you have two audiences, let’s say like you do, how do you make sure especially, I’m imagining, on LinkedIn how do you make sure that people know that you’re both? But because, like some of the times, you post about one or the other, how do you kind of balance that? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

35:23

So what I did when I was, you know, getting started with the strategies, I use my different platforms differently. So for me, my TikTok and Instagram is where I speak to small business owners, whereas LinkedIn and, at the time, twitter though I’m not there anymore was where I spoke to, like fellow marketers, and by having this different messaging on different platforms, I was able to reach those two audiences in different ways. So, starting my business, you know, I was only on TikTok, I was only speaking to new business owners, and then I was speaking about Google Ads, Google Analytics and free Google tools at the time. So then, once I got things really going on TikTok, I was like well, I can repurpose all of my TikToks onto YouTube but then also create some YouTube-specific content. I think my first one was how to set up a search campaign on YouTube which would speak to that same audience, but in a kind of a deeper way, and so I really stuck with that video new business owner, small business owner audience. 

36:15

But at a certain point I thought, you know, if I want to grow my business the way I want to grow my business, I need to go into people who have bigger budgets, because you know what? New business owners don’t have big budgets for ads or maybe, as I discovered, shouldn’t always be running ads. And so that’s when I decided I need to speak to some fellow marketers, whether it’s other Google Ads practitioners I can coach or advise, whether it’s meta ads practitioners or SEOs who want to get into Google ads. And so I decided to get more into LinkedIn and Twitter because I felt like that’s where those communities already are and I can tap into that. But it required different content. You’re sharing three tips to launch a search campaign might appeal to some meta ads practitioners, but that wasn’t going to help me stand out there. And so when I first got into the PPC chat, google ads, twitter at the time I had unpopular opinions from an ex-Googler. 

36:59

It was a series I did and it got a lot of attention and it’s how I ended up meeting like Amalia Fowler, who’s now one of my closest friends. But it was through the comments on posts like that. And now I have all these different platforms and all these different kinds of content. But you know from day one, one platform, one message, one audience, and test it and it may work and it may not work. You know, I am fortunate that something resonated. There I hit on something that worked. It may not work for you, so okay, you give it a month or two. It’s not working. Try something different. You’ve lost a bit of time, but okay, try a different audience, try a different message. 

Danny Gavin Host

37:30

See what works next, I promise that, if you’re also moving into, I would say, traditional Google Ads marketers within agencies and training them as well or coaching them as well. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

37:45

Absolutely. That’s something that was not even on my radar at the beginning, but it’s sort of like the one client will reach out well, do you do this? Oh yeah, like that’s how I started Google Ads coaching. I was just doing Google Ads management and one person reached out. I didn’t have the capacity. He said, okay, well, do you do consulting? The answer is always yes to that question, by the way, and yes, of course I do. And so I consulted for this one law firm and I thought, oh, I really liked that. So I started talking in my head about being on a consulting call and then, you know, more of them came and it snowballed from there. 

38:17

It’s the same way I started my MBA admissions consulting business. I had written this blog post for this MBA admissions website and in the comments someone commented Jyll, do you do MBA admissions consulting? The answer is always yes. I just wanted yes, and that person didn’t become my first client, but someone else who saw that comment became my first client and I started a business off of that. So people say do you do this, do you do that? Can you help me with this? If you want the answer to be yes, the answer is yes, there you go. That’s business. 

Danny Gavin Host

38:45

So, with consulting and your course, how do you stay relevant with regards to the actual platform and what to do? Are you managing some accounts? How do you kind of balance that? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

38:54

It was something I was really concerned about when I fired my last Google Ads management client after a year in business because I didn’t want to be in. You know how I am going to stay up to date on things? But it’s interesting because now, as a coach and consultant, I see anywhere from six to 12 different Google Ads accounts a week across industries across the world. So while I’m not personally responsible for the dollars, I don’t get emergency calls on the weekend that there’s some kind of Google Ads emergency. That’s why I didn’t want to be in client management anymore. But I have access to so many different accounts, I’m seeing so many different accounts and I’m testing so many different things because I’m advising different strategies. And then we have the follow-up and what happened and what did we learn? That’s why I’m really able to stay up to date. 

39:34

And then I also am honest about what I don’t know. For example, I haven’t managed an app campaign in two years. I’ve only had one coaching client in the last few years who does apps. So if someone says to me like, oh, can you help me with my app campaign, I’ll say no, I’m not the right person for you to hire. Or like vehicle listing ads, never used them before, so, like I’ll refer you to someone, I’m not the right person to help you with that. So that’s you know. It’s okay to say yes to opportunities if you want them, but then also it’s okay to say no if you don’t want them or don’t feel like you’re the right person to help. And I think that’s something that takes confidence to build the ability to say no in business. Like the first time I fired a client oh, terrifying, I couldn’t sleep the night before and now I feel very comfortable saying nope, not the right fit to work with you. 

Danny Gavin Host

40:18

Can you tell us about your upcoming book that will publish this year Inside Google Ads everything you need to know about audience targeting? 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

40:23

Yes, I’m so excited to be publishing it this year, either in March or April 2025. It’ll be available on Amazon paperback and ebook. I actually started writing this book back in 2022. I got a stroke of inspiration one evening and just started typing away furiously. I tell the story in the introduction of the book so I won’t spoil the whole thing. It’s not that great a story, but anyway I started writing it and for like 10 days I just wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote and then I was going through IVF at the time was very fortunate to get pregnant, you know and then life happens pregnant and then maternity leave, and then we moved and and so, coming into 2024, one of my goals that I set with my assistant or business planning was I’m publishing my book in 2024, blocked off the whole summer to work on it, did not even open the file once all summer, but then September hit and I had this huge rush of energy, wrote most of it in September, procrastinated a bit through October, November and then finally finished it in December. 

41:21

So it’s really an overview of every single kind of audience targeting Google ads, how they work, how they can work, for you mistakes to avoid things I’ve learned, but then also expanding into. You know what all the recent changes around audiences and Google ads can tell us about where Google ads is going. So it’s educational. Sure, it’s kind of that reference guide for audiences. But then I also want to make sure I took it to the next level and offered something that you can’t just Google. You know what is the future of custom segments, what’s the future of combined segments, what do cookie changes mean for audience targeting? So those are the kind of things I wanted to explore in my book in a way that you can’t really explore in a LinkedIn post. You know social media algorithms don’t reward deep thought and discussion. So that was another motivation for wanting a book to really be able to get into it with people who enjoy getting you know deep into these topics and why did you choose the audience niche? 

42:13

Audiences are magical, like. It still blows my mind that we have audience targeting and I guess I should define that like the the ability to show ads to people based on who they are, based on what Google knows about them you know they’re not necessarily searching or typing into the magic white box what they’re looking for, but based on this amalgamation of all their online behavior, we know who are the value shoppers or the luxury shoppers. We know who’s in the market for new shoes. We know who’s in the market for a stroller, we know who recently bought a house and we can show ads to them that specifically resonate with them and have the right messaging, and I just think it’s so cool. 

42:49

So it’s partly it’s just always been a personal interest of mine. I see them work so effectively through the more than 400 coaching calls I’ve done over the last four years of my business. You know so many people don’t even know you can do this in Google ads, so that was absolutely a motivation. And then it’s an area that’s really been changing a lot, especially in the last year. Alongside, you know, changes in AI, privacy changes, and so that’s what made it feel like, even though I started the book in 2022 and finished it in 2025, still so ripe for exploration because there’s so much power, so much change and I felt like that just deserves 40,000 words to explore. 

Danny Gavin Host

43:27

And as things continue to change, how do you plan on updating it, do you or is it more like? This is a work and it will be what it is. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

43:33

Absolutely updating it. I worked with a professional designer to design the cover before I finished the manuscript and it says first edition right there. So this is the first edition. I will be updating it. 

43:43

One thing I decided early on was I wasn’t going to include any screenshots in the book, because we know how quickly those can change and Inside Google Ads course has that. So of course, the course and the book will pair very nicely together, but you don’t have to have one to get value out of the other. So the second edition you know will be updated and I’m planning to add more books to the series. So this is Inside Google Ads everything you need to know about audience targeting. I’m planning for the next book to be Inside Google Ads. Everything you need to know about keywords and content targeting. And then I think the third book will be everything you need to know about bidding. But I just submitted the manuscript last week so I gave myself a little break before I start working on book number two. Actually, the way we designed the spines of the book, we were intentional that if you have them lined up on your bookshelf they’ll work together as a series. So I’m nerding out over those little details. 

Danny Gavin Host

44:36

No, it’s awesome. It’s like when I teach everyone about UTM tracking. I’m like you have to think not about your campaign today, but how are you going to do your campaigns in a year from now? And that’s exactly what you’re doing. Well, it’s so lovely to speak with you, Jyll. You are so impressive. Really, you are super impressive. I feel like you’re someone to look up to, with your successes and how you approach life and business. It’s so cool to get to know you a little bit now and I hope we get to know each other more in the future. 

Jyll Saskin Gales Guest

45:04

Thank you so much, Danny. I really appreciate that. I guess one thing I’ll say to that is I have achieved a. I have achieved a lot in my career and I am really proud of myself. But you know, this conversation today is me looking with hindsight and telling my story in a way that, of course, is very impressive. So I just want to say, you know, if you’re listening, oh my gosh, I could never do that. Like yeah, there were a lot of stumbles as well that were not part of the conversation today. So just keep at it, wake up a new day and post the dang content, awesome. 

Danny Gavin Host

45:33

Well, thank you so much for being a guest on the Digital Marketing Mentor and thank you, listeners, for tuning into the Digital Marketing Mentor. We’ll speak with you next time.