032: ChatGPT Did NOT Write This Title – The Best of AI and ChatGPT with The Digital Marketing Mentor

C: Podcast

In this special episode of The Digital Marketing Mentor, we look back at the many conversations we’ve had with our guests around the topic of ChatGPT and AI. We discuss the teaching of it to students (and our own kids). We talk about the ethical and moral uses and limitations of such a tool. We also talk about why many of us believe this will not be taking any of our jobs any time soon. 

Key Points + Topics

  • [1:01] (Mosheh Poltrak) His team is trying to incorporate the use of AI into their workflow. He recently posted a position for “AI Wrangler.” This would be someone who would try and work AI into every process we have to make it more efficient. Of course, there will be people who abuse it, but that’s the case with many things. Mosheh believes we’re just scratching the surface and is excited about what’s coming. Every thread in ChatGPT has a memory, so you can teach and train it on a given task, and it improves. Ultimately, it will be a great tool to help people be better at their jobs. 
  • [4:32] (Aurora Losada) ChatGPT and AI generate a lot of fear and excitement. At Microsoft, Aurora and her team work a lot with these tools internally. The goal is to make AI a tool that supports humans, not the other way around. Generate AI is a very specific kind of AI. It generates things from prompts, and those prompts must come from humans. 
  • [8:00] (Daniel Cotlar) Someone has compared ChatGPT to a calculator, but for words. He likes this analogy. Calculators have made us less patient with math but allowed us to focus more on what math can do rather than simply understanding the mechanics. Daniel doesn’t like “word carbs,” all that filler and fluff in communication. There’s often 10% of a message that is the real thing you need to know in any given piece of media. With the help of ChatGPT and AI, we are going to be better able to get the real value of knowledge. It’s going to shake everything up, much like the internet did. True creativity remains unique to humans. 
  • [11:25] (John Doherty) John believes that AI may lead to people producing less content, but only in the (very) long term. He reminisces back to when he first joined the SEO space in 2011 and how easy it was. But SEO is just one use of content. Content written just to rank in search engines and get traffic is changing. There is also a lot of content NOT made for SEO, like marketing, sales, brochures, user guides, academic papers, and more. He and his team at EditorNinja find themselves grappling with the same questions as everyone else – How do we use it morally, ethically, and efficiently? 
  • [14:08] (Fay Friedman) There are many people in SEO that are very anti-AI. She believes that to be the wrong approach. One of her newer employees came to her with ideas of how to incorporate it into their workflows without even being prompted. So, they’re already using it and trying to find more ways to work it into their processes. It’s not going anywhere and is only going to get smarter. If you try to fight it, she believes you’ll be left behind because everyone else is going to use it. She believes we should embrace it and try to find ways to use it to make us quicker, smarter, and better! 
  • [16:30] (Bill Zahn) In the past, Bill has said, “If you don’t know how to write, you don’t know marketing.” The updated version of that, keeping ChatGPT in mind, is “If you don’t know how to write prompts, you don’t know marketing.” Writing skills, in general, are fundamental in marketing, whether the product is ad copy, scripts, brand plans, communications, and more. Content is HUGE for companies right now, so to be a successful marketer, you have to be able to create content. Right now, the content AI is creating is kind of “plain Jane,” but the more humanity you can put into it from the beginning, the better it becomes. The trick for Bill now, as a professor, is discovering how to encourage students to use it but not become reliant on it. He also has to take into account the different policies certain educational institutions have regarding ChatGPT and AI; many currently view anything created with it as “plagiarized.” 
  • [19:50] (Aurora L.) She recalls the story that made headlines where a New York Times writer spoke to ChatGPT for hours. This conversation ultimately resulted in the program trying to convince him to leave his wife and marry GPT. There will always be ways to tweak things; it’s all a big experiment. She has been using AI to make her life easier and more efficient. It takes over a lot of the little, menial tasks, much like an executive assistant, allowing her to focus on her big goals. She was recently managing the creation of a client story for Microsoft. It involved getting photos of a client in front of their closest Walmary in Mexico City. Aurora was in Houston and had to coordinate all of this happening within 50 minutes. She used Microsoft’s AI program to find the nearest Walmart to her client’s office, find the contacts for the communications department to get permission, and even get suggestions for specific messages for this particular project. It didn’t write the story for her or have conversations with the communications team for her. It was assisting her. 
  • [24:55] (Jamie Belinne) For future workers in the digital marketing field and all industries, one of the best skills to have is the ability to speak persuasively. ChatGPT and AI cannot do that, and it’s going to be quite a long time before they can. The people that have that “selling skill” will be the ones to really succeed. Computers are really good are creating and compiling data, but a human must interpret that data. That can’t (yet) be outsourced to computers. It still requires people to take that data and turn it into a story. 
  • [26:25] (Daniel C.) Daniel does not shy away from the conversations around AI and his children. He’s already delved into the topic with his high school-aged daughter. It’s in their toolset now, and we have to figure out how to use it. He wouldn’t try to prohibit or prevent its use. He believes it is the responsibility of schools to make sure it becomes a part of the curriculum and to teach children how to use it responsibly. 
  • [27:50] (Amalia Fowler) When deciding how to work AI into her curriculum, Amalia is taking very careful steps. She believes if a student can use a tool when they’re out of her classroom and in the workforce, she has to teach them how to use it responsibly. Can she teach them it’s not always accurate? What are its limitations? What are its inherent biases? What are the ethical implications of its use? One of the essential questions you must ask every time you use a tool like ChatGPT is, “What is wrong with it?” 
  • [30:45] (John D.) John believes the people using AI-generated content for SEO purposes, and using it well, are the ones who have subject matter experts originating the thoughts, prompts, and inputs. When it comes to new content being created, he believes you have to approach it from a research perspective. 
  • [31:30] (Aurora L.) The info this tool returns for a prompt comes from searching around the web. So, her first concern is accuracy. What is the source? Is it reliable? Outside of research, GPT is great for creating summaries and drafts from your prompts and content. You’ll always need to polish, check, and expand on the content it produces. She is convinced this will not replace any working humans, even those working on creating, supervising, and communicating content. 

Guest + Episode Links

Full Episode Transcript

Danny Gavin    00:05 

Welcome to a special edition of the Digital Marketing Mentor, where we dive deep into the fascinating world of artificial intelligence and the revolutionary chatGPT. In this unique episode, we’ll bring you highlights of captivating interviews with esteemed guests who’ve explored the possibilities and implications of AI tools. Join us as we unravel the intricacies of this cutting-edge technology, its impact on the digital marketing landscape, and the profound ways in which it has the potential to shape our creative world. Get ready to be inspired, informed, and captivated by this exploration into the best of AI and chat gpt how would you utilize chat gpt and AI for your marketing efforts?


Mosheh Poltorak    01:03 

I’m trying to incorporate it into everything that we do, honestly. I recently posted a list of positions that I’m looking for and one of them was AI Wrangler so a friend called me I was like, what’s the job description for that role? And frankly, someone that can implement aI practices and you know whether it’s better prompt writing into every process to make it more efficient. There’s no reason to be afraid of it and to run away from it and to think of it as the enemy. It is absolutely going to make us all better marketers, more efficient if we use the right. Are people going to use it? Absolutely are we going to see a bunch of junk content that’s trying to you know spam the Internet and rank for keywords without adding any value? Of course and we have been already for a couple of years. It’s a cat and mouse game on that side but if you’re in, I would say any really any business, not even in business you know, I’m telling mom, I showed chatgpt to my daughter and we’re playing around with it and you know we’re exploring, you know what can we use it for what can we use it for what are the implications. And we’re just scratching the surface. I know that everybody’s talking about it now. It’s a watershed moment for a I. These models have existed for a few years now. You know GPT3 has been around for about a year and a half chat g p t is based on 3 5. What’s coming is incredible and I’m very excited about it. You asked me, you know, practically, if you can use it as a tool to help you be better at your job, by all means, do it. If you use it as a crutch to as an excuse for not being creative, not being original and really plagiarism, then you haven’t added any value. So we’re using it in content creation, in social media creation. That doesn’t mean that you know an entire post can be written by a single AI prompt but if you know how to ask the right questions and the right follow-up questions, you can get really good output. I’ll give you a simple example. I gave a prompt to Chatgpt blurb to write a blurb about a podcast episode, and it gave It gave me something that was kind of mediocre. So I rewrote it and then I put it back into ChatgPT and I said, hey, I rewrote what you wrote. Tell me why it’s better. And it specifies, you know, you did x y and z, you were, you know, clearer about the value, and you made it more interesting to the reader, whatever it was. And then I went back and I said, I gave it another episode. I said, now based on what you’ve learned, write a description about this episode. And it improves every thread within chat gPT has a memory, so you can train it to improve and that’s what these other companies that are built on top of G PT3 like Jasper and Copy A I and you’ve got a bunch of them. You know you have ink here in Houston a lot of these companies that are leveraging on top of these models, they’re just building those kind of training on top of and also the prompt infrastructure on top of the language model. So you can do amazing things. Content obviously, processes, getting more efficient, getting a little bit lazy on some things but if it helps to speed something up that really a robot should be doing, then give it to the robots. Why would why would we want to be doing it? So that’s my general advice that I’m telling my kids, my nieces, nephews and I guess anybody who wants to hear me shouting from the rooftops. We need to be spending our time learning how to be human and learning how to work with a I. We don’t need to be afraid of a I replacing humans because they are not human. They would do a lot of things very well and we should let them.


Danny Gavin    04:31 

So having worked in digital marketing and traditional media companies like the Chronicle, KPRC in general, what is your stance on the use of AI for content generation?


Aurora Losada    04:41 

So the one thing that I want to say, and again this is all my opinion, not Microsoft, is that I understand that there is a lot of confusion out there naturally this is super new and it’s been fast and furious and it’s by all means and there is no question about that technological revolution. So you know obviously that generates a lot of confusion and that generates a lot of fear and that generates a lot of expectation from where I see it. And as you can imagine, we work a lot internally with these tools and particularly because I’m in the communications department, we ask communicators in inside the company work a lot with these tools. The purpose here is actually to make generative AI a tool that supports humans and not the other way around. So when I hear and again this is me speaking, when I hear things like oh, we’re all going to lose our jobs because of this or this is the time when we’re all going to be wiped off with or by aI and everything that aI is going to bring along with it. I understand the fear again and I understand the concerns. But for me they are totally unfounded because one of the things that is super important to make a distinction about is that generative AI is a very specific kind of aI as you know very well Danny. And So what virtually generative AI does is that it will create but it will create with prompt and the problems need to come from a human brain. So to give you an example we just did a story I was kind of managing a storytelling project that was amazing for me, very dear to my heart about three different Microsoft plans in Latin America, in three different countries in Latin America that are actually in the fintech industry. And they are using aI to generate financial inclusion in Latin America which is really low. And when we were interviewing the three of them, the three of them across the board will. The thing with a I that a lot of people do not understand yet is that this is a human brain directing aI. So whatever prompts we put into this system or whatever queries we put into this system have need to come from someone that is a human thinking being. Otherwise, you know, aI would be of no use. So the first thing that I would say is that the main purpose is to actually help us be more efficient, be more productive, be more creative. From that standpoint, I absolutely love it concerns are still out there and I would include myself when I say concerns, maybe not so much like a concern, but kind of a realization that there is still a long way to go in terms of polishing certain things. Obviously, it has to be used in a very responsible manner and it has to be presented in a very responsible manner, which again, by the way, is something that Microsoft is not only very aware of, but really working a lot into. And again, not talking about the company, I’m just you know, telling you my own experience, but it’s true. And that is something that obviously comes in faces that is not something that is going to be there from the get go. But what is undeniable is that it’s well used and it’s properly used in ways that actually can help us. This is an amazing tool.


Daniel Cotlar    08:01 

Especially as we enter an age with a I built into everything. I’ve seen it like chat gpt compared to a calculator but for words. I like that analogy. Calculators in some ways made us less patient with doing the math. But then it also elevated us to not to, you know, beyond the mechanics instead of spending so much time on the mechanics of mathematics, we can actually use the numbers for something else. I’ve never been a fan of what I call word carbs, which is all the words that we all say that are, that don’t bring extra value, that are okay then there’s like 10 % that’s what you needed to know inside of there. And I think this will basically make it even easier to differentiate between the piece of knowledge that you need and all of that fluff all around it, because it’s so easy to produce now instead of that being a valuable skill, putting together this just packaging and packaging on packaging of words, you’re going to get value. The value of the, of the, of the real knowledge becomes highlighted.


Danny Gavin    09:05 

I’m so glad that you mentioned chat gpt because and for those people who don’t know like the power of it so for example, like let’s say I sit on a call for 30 minutes and I’m taking notes, copious notes I’m exactly what people are saying. What I will then do is I can take that transcript, stick it into chat GPT and say, hey, can you pull out the main points of the conversation or, you know, what are the main things that I should focus on or remember? And literally, it will analyze that text and bring to the surface what you’re looking for. I think a lot of people spend whether is chat GpT accurate or not, But I think the power is sometimes taking your own data and your own information, feeding it in, and then building off of that. And it’s been truly powerful.


Daniel Cotlar    09:46 

I tried it for the first time in that respect with a community WhatsApp group. It was all this discussion, it just was. I woke up to 400 or 500 messages. It was about something about housing in our neighborhood and the housing prices or whatever. And I copied and pasted it in and I asked ChatGPT to be to summarize and it did. And then I said, can you list the five main opinions and this was, by the way, I didn’t format it well i just plumped it in with, you know, bad formatting. And it listed the five main opinions, the most vocal voices, what they believe. This stuff is coming this is already here. And we have the change is going to be something on the order of the Internet, not specifically from ChatGPT but the whole age of all of the stuff from all the companies and how it’s going to be integrated and everything. I think it’s going to shake everything up again, much like the Internet did. There’s going to be entirely new opportunities. The playing board is just, it’s going to be shaken up. So it ties into that other conversation, you know, with kind of the packaging becoming less important because it can be done by a robot versus the value that we humans add is the true creativity, not the amalgamation of every opinion on the Internet, but something that’s new and creative and it will always be those things. And so back to like the you see the world and why I’m bullish on it and in generally speaking why I think that there are opportunities for self-directed people who are not inside the mainstream of the university system is because there’ll be opportunities for them to shine, especially with these kinds of tools.


Danny Gavin    11:23 

With Google adding and also Bing right, adding AI and you know, generative responses on the top. Do you feel like it’s going to push people to produce less content like is that, is that a concern at all for you?


John Doherty    11:34 

I think maybe over the long term it will, but there’s still a lot of traffic to go around i think we have a long time to kind of write it down to be completely honest with you. I mean, it’s not nearly as easy to get traffic from search engines to content that you’ve created as it used to be, right i mean i wish I understood you know in 20, 2011 twenty ten twenty eleven when I got my first job as an SEO just like how easy it was at that time. You know I remember slamming like buying like 50 exact match anchor text links pointing to a specific page and boom, you rank number one for like a 15.000, thousand you know search a month like keyword like it’s really hard to do that these days. You know, as it specifically relates to content like I mean SEO is just one use of content like I think like SEO content itself and content written just to like rank and get traffic is like it it’s changing it’s definitely changing with you know with the SGE with like generated content in there. But there’s so much content like so much content that’s created for marketing and sales and business purposes that is not SEO content, right there’s press releases, there’s ebooks there’s sales collateral there’s decks, there’s presentations like there’s all that stuff and then you know and then you get into like books and academic papers and that kind of thing like there’s so much content out there that like I feel like we can you know we can kind of adjust with the times but like we also haven’t really seen a decrease. The only decreases we’ve seen are because of the current economic situation and people investing less into content at least with the customers that we have. We’ve had a couple customers like kind of trim back their like their monthly like spend with us and the amount of content they’re putting through simply because they’ve lost customers. So like that that’s more the thing but I expect it to come back you know whenever, whenever things kind of turn around. But yeah I don’t I don’t really worry about it there are definitely questions about like a I and how’s that going to affect things and you know we’re grappling with those questions as well but you know we’re also you know working to working to deliver on it when people need it.


John Doherty    13:27 

Yeah, I think it’s early days. We, you know, I think everyone’s in the same boat. So it’s just a matter of kind of looking at what’s happening and i agree with you I think it’s going to take a little bit of time before we get to that point where suddenly things change completely. So we’re all, we’re all along for the same ride. Yeah i think it’s kind of going to be like the way I think about it is like people used to talk about the year of mobile, right? There was never a year of mobile like you’d look back and you then you can see like the trend of like over 7 years mobile went from like 20 % to 60 % of traffic, but it wasn’t, but nothing jumped from 20 to 60 or whatever, you know. So i think it’s going to be, I think it’s going to shift like that and we’ll start seeing like a shift of balances and that kind of thing i don’t know what those shifts are going to be, but I think that’s more what it’ll be.


Fay Friedman    14:08 

I think that there are a lot of Seo’s that are like, no chat gpt, don’t ever use it. We use it, we embrace it. And there’s actually a member of my team who started using it right away and I love the initiative. Like before I even started using it, she came to me like, hey, I did some really cool stuff with chat gpt, can I use it and I’m like sure this is awesome. So I love when they take initiative like that and it was great and we’re using it, we’ve integrated it into our processes. I think that in general, it’s not going anywhere it’s only getting smarter and the s e o ‘s and the content marketers and the people who are going to survive are the ones who are integrating aI and chatGPT into their work and come get with smarter decisions because of it. Like if you try to fight it, I think if you say like don’t use it, it’s the devil, it’s everybody else is using it so I would say rather let’s embrace it and figure out ways to use it and make us smarter and quicker and better. I’m not going to say we definitely have some content that we write completely from scratch and there’s a lot of content that we say throw it into chat gPT, we edit it, we fix it and it’s good. Google says that they don’t like chatgPT content. I want to see how they’re checking it. I don’t know.


Danny Gavin    15:22 

That’s really interesting but I agree you have to find a way to integrate it because the people who aren’t doing that are going to be left behind. I don’t know if you can answer this question but is the company using chat gpt for like listings and coming up with like content to describe a property.


Fay Friedman    15:37 

Not really we’re the only department within the company obviously that uses it and we still have a very hands on approach because I have you know an in house team that’s there’s enough people that we have the manpower so yes, we’ll use chat gpt to save time to like there’s work that we used to ask for the freelancers and now we use chat gpt for, but we do the same thing that we would have done with the Filancer so that’s where I’m like, it’s the same thing we would have sent it to our Filancer and then edited it, fixed it up. So now we’ll do the same thing we’ll give it to chat gpt and then we’ll edit it and fix it up. But the core work we’re still doing ourselves. And I think it’s the creativity and the understanding of your consumer and your demographics that’s not changing. Like we have to have the right mindset and then know how to use tax you can see to further our goals.


Danny Gavin    16:26 

So back in March you tweeted If you don’t know how to write, you don’t know marketing. With the world of AI generated content swiftly encroaching on the world of digital marketing, how does this impact your stance on writing in the marketing world?


William (Bill) Zahn    16:41 

If you don’t know how to write prompts, you don’t know marketing.


Danny Gavin    16:45 

So do you want to elaborate?


William (Bill) Zahn    16:48 

Well, I mean, I think writing and getting a message across and this could be like writing copy, it could be writing a video script, it could be writing a brand plan, it could be writing emails to communicate with somebody and influence an idea, right. Lots of different elements of writing that are really important. Let’s just take it from a content generation point of view. Content’s huge for companies right now and you’ve got to be able to create, to create content. And if you don’t understand how to do that, then you’re going to struggle. It’s an important part of the business. I’m a firm believer in the inbound marketing model that you create content for your customers for when they’re looking for it and you know that attracts them to your business they’ll find it when they’re looking. If you have good content out there, you’re more likely to be found. Now with aI kind of changing the game now what aI can’t do is have the unique, flavorful experiences that you or I have, right? They don’t have your background in music or your international background your you know, growing up in South Africa, having this really diverse and unique life that you could pull from in your experiences and your storytelling so you’re still kind of getting like chat g p t with this sort of, I don’t want to use the word soulless, right, Like, but it’s sort of like plain Jane right now. But I think the more you can maybe write pomps to tell chat, you can be a story like, hey, this is an event that happened in my life and this is how I felt about it and I want you to write a piece of copy that talks about how my life was impacted by this and how this product could help in that situation. You know, i definitely think aI is something important to be discussing in our in our classes, because I’ve even experimented a few with a few of those folks that you may be referenced earlier using a I to help me generate some ideas. But at the end of the day, it’s still, you got to add some personality to it and I think the way to do that is just becoming more familiar with it, playing with it, practicing, trying out different prompts and really like figuring out how to make the AI is interesting as you can make it. I hope that makes sense but I think, I think prompt engineering is going to be a new field in marketing that we need to start discussing the implications for things like chat gpt and some of these other AI writers is going to be really huge. So I’m looking forward to it. The trick right now is like, how do you encourage students to use stuff but not to completely rely on it, right the school has some policies about like, hey, Chat GpT is considered a plagiarism. But I want my students to use ChaGPT to help create, you know, because like, that’s what they’re going to be doing and in the real world so some of my assignments are going to be along the lines of outline of blog posts that would go over these topics and so it’s going to be super interesting to see over the next year how things change.


Aurora Losada    19:50 

So usually what happens is people concentrate on things like, oh, but it completely lost it when, you know, there is this famous anecdote of the New York, new york times journalist. That spend hours talking back and forth with GPT and then at the end of the day, GPT ended up declaring its love for him and asking him to basically leave his wife and marry GPT which is, which is really, you know, you understand that at some point is like okay, this actually went off the rails because they were us talking with each other i mean, this guy was talking with GPT for about an hour or something like that. And so these are the ways to tweak things and to make them better because it’s like a trial error process and you are experimenting, but that is something that actually gets a lot of attention in the media. What I can tell you are the things that I have been experiencing with when I’m using AI that has made my life amazingly, I would say, easier, more efficient in so many different ways. And definitely think that for what I want to do, which is concentrating on my goals and the results that I want to create is almost like having an executive assistant on your side that will do a lot of those menial jobs for you that otherwise you need to spend a lot of time doing yourself.


Danny Gavin    21:13 

Do you have any specific examples that you can get that you can share with us?


Aurora Losada    21:17 

Actually a very recent one so I was trying to, for this particular story that I talked about, I was telling you that I was managing. It’s a client story that is on our website and it involved three different clients that we were interviewing, one in Mexico, one in Brazil, one in Argentina. So I was obviously coordinating all the photo shoots in all those three different countries. So for the one in Mexico, as it happened, I needed to coordinate a photo shoot in less than 15 minutes this is a long story and I’m not going to bore you with that, but for different reasons, it had to happen in less than 15 minutes. I’m in Houston. This had to happen in Mexico and I needed our person that was going to be photographed at a specific Walmart that was close to his offices and I needed permission from Walmart to have this person in there with my photographer to take the photos. Imagine doing this in less than 15 seconds and I’m in Houston and I didn’t even know where to start with, so I went to Bing. It sounds like a commercial, but I swear that this is true. It’s real. I went to Bing and I said I need you to find the closest Walmart to this particular address in Mexico City. It did. It gave me the map. It gave me The Walking and driving distance in terms of distance and in terms of time and once i had already settled my in my image. Okay this is doable i mean this guy doesn’t need to drive for about two hours to get there. The next thing that I asked was okay can you give me the names and contacts of every single person in the Walmart communication department in Mexico that I will need to touch the base with just to ask for permission? And just gave me the roster of names and contact info and without my asking it came up with suggestions of different communications or emails that I could send for this particular task if I wanted to do so and so in 5 minutes I was calling the right person at Walmart Mexico to ask them for permission. And so I can tell you this because I know this if it weren’t because of being at that particular point, it could have taken me hours to do the same thing. So Bing was not writing the story for me, you know, Bing was not doing anything for me that I didn’t want Bing to do. Bing was assisting me with information that otherwise could have take me a long time to find around the Internet, you know so it’s those are the things that I’m still learning to use Bing in that way but those are the things that literally blow my mind every day. And now that we have Copilot that you have probably heard of, which is basically applying these for Microsoft three sixty five, it’s absolutely mind blowing because you can go into a meeting and just, you know, tell Copilot, Okay, give me all the notes from previous meetings with this client or this person and just summarize the notes and then make a PowerPoint for me so I can share it on this call. And it will be like, boom, boom, boom. So for me, it’s like, oh, I always wanted to have an executive assistant in my life. And finally it’s happening, you know, but Copilot will not talk for you in that meeting, will not make business decisions for you in that meeting so I think that is a very important distinction that needs to be made.


Jamie Belinne    24:51 

But in terms of the big picture stuff, there’s some consistent things we’re hearing from all of them. And one is that persuasive interpersonal skill set, being able to speak persuasively because that’s one thing that chat gpt and ai, they can’t do that and it’s going to be a long time before they can so the human beings who’ve got that selling skill, basically regardless of your field, you don’t have to be in sales to need the selling skill. Accounting, finance, supply chain, everybody needs it. But the people that have that are much more successful and they move up more quickly. So that’s one side the other side is that ability to tell a story from data. So the computers are really good at creating data and saying this data says this about this data and then you can make more data. But then the computer goes and walks away and the human being has to be able to look at all of this data and say, ooh, you know, based on this, we need to think differently or we need to act differently or we need to ask the computer some new questions to find better insights. But that ability to really understand data, tell stories with it and that ability to talk persuasively with other people that can’t be outsourced to computers yet, it’s something that it’s harder to send it overseas because you need those client relationships for it to be meaningful. And so if you want to have growth and success, at least in the near term, those two broad areas are what I’m hearing again and again from computers.


Danny Gavin    26:24 

For a while I was like, I don’t want to talk about chat gpt around my kids because as soon as they find out about it, like their schooling, it’s going to be totally different. But I had to chat with one of my other friends recently he’s like, no, like I spent, you know, at night and sitting down with my, you know, 13 year old and going through and I was like, ooh, that’s a really good point so I actually sat down, you know, with my eldest and kind of went through what it’s capable of and what I think you know is the right way of using it and what is technically not be great. Just wanting your thought on that.


Daniel Cotlar    26:53 

It’s important to like I have already gone with my high school age daughter. We were working on something together with it. And yeah, I definitely basically it’s in the tool set now and so we have to figure out how to how to use it, these kinds of tools to shine. I would not try to like prevent it or prohibit it it’s also the school’s jobs to figure out how to how to make it part of the curriculum and then also create opportunities to make sure children learn and they’re not just copying and pasting and there should be some very clear ways to do it i don’t necessarily mean the arms race of technology you know Chad 0 is G PD0 whatever it’s called, finding out whether they use it or not. But things that are very clear, you know just pen and paper things that show whether somebody’s actually thought about a topic and other ways that chat gbt couldn’t do.


Danny Gavin    27:46 

Are you thinking about incorporating chat gbt sort of lessons or modules within your for curriculum?


Amalia Fowler    27:52 

Yeah, so there’s, I mean there’s a few things, there’s institutional policy around that type of thing, which varies from institution to institution and then in terms of like changing curriculum, like I can adjust what’s within a course, but changing the like overall learning objectives of course, is like a whole other thing that’s out of my scope. I have decided, mostly because I’m not all over there yet, mostly to embrace it. My general philosophy and my classes is if they can Google it while they’re outside of my class in the workforce, then I need to teach them how to use it responsibly while they’re inside my class, because it’s all well and good and this is just my opinion i’d like just to any professors that do this differently it’s a whole new world like we’re all figuring it out. I have no judgment on what other people are doing in their classrooms, but for me, I am like, okay they’re going to use ChatgPT. Like there’s no way that they’re not going to go into their careers and use it in some capacity. I used it the other day to brainstorm business names like I’m using it they’re probably using it but can I teach them that it is not always accurate, That it doesn’t have access to the Internet that it can’t actually pull from sources can I teach them all the limitations? Can I teach them that because it was coded by a specific group of people in a specific country that it has inherent biases within its programming can I teach them about the ethical implications of a I can I research all these elements and bring them into the classroom in a way that when they do go out into the world to use it, they have a lens from which they’re seeing it because I was the first voice they heard on the topic. And so we had an email marketing assignment in this one class I teach and I the assignment was get ChatgPT Boutique to write a sales email for you, and your job is to critique it. I want you, based on all of the best practices we’ve talked about in class, to tell me what ChatGpT said and tell me why you would do a better job as a human. So it’s like go use it, go do this with it, and then tell me where it’s flawed. So that’s the that’s the one thing that pops to mind.


Danny Gavin    29:58 

And I think an essential question that you have to ask each time is what’s wrong with it, right what Point out the problems. And I think that if we train our students and people in general to look for that, no one’s going to just copy and paste, but they’re going to, right? Have to look Mull over and see what are the problems and how can I make it better.


Amalia Fowler    30:17 

Yeah, it’s not perfect it is not there’s so much misinformation out there about it too so if I can teach them, we’re going to find good information, who to listen to check their sources, sources. I personally, and again this is my opinion and not that of my institution or any other professors that I work with but my personal opinion is if it’s something that they’re going to be able to use in the real world, then we should be using it in my classroom so that they can figure out how to use it responsibly.


John Doherty    30:44 

We’ve actually been seeing a lot more like kind of AI generated content that’s being used for SEO purposes. But the ones that are doing it well have like a subject matter expertise doing it they’re writing the prompts they’re you know, going deep on it they’re asking you know, a I to go deeper and I actually could you expound on this point like that sort of stuff. So like i’m all good with that. But you know as it relates to like new content being created, you know, you can’t just go and like write something you know about a topic and then try to shoehorn in like you know 3 mentions of this keyword and you know call it a day, right like you actually need to go at it from a bit more like search perspective of like what kind of content needs to be in there as well as like at what point in the funnel is this?


Danny Gavin    31:28 

Most marketers seem to agree that AI content won’t replace human copywriters and content writers. What do you think is the sort of upper limit on what you would feel comfortable generating with AI, specifically from a content perspective?


Aurora Losada    31:41 

The one thing about chatbots like GPT that are AI generated and as you said before, particularly with GPT, it uses large language models. And as you know very well, the information that this particular tool is coming back with once you generate a prompt or ask questions comes from searching around the web, right? So the first concern obviously is accuracy. Where is this coming from? Where is the source what is the source? How do I know that you know this is a reliable source? I would say if you ever try Bing in this way, you will see that once it gives you the answer or answers, it also gives you know different numbers of this is source one, this is source two if you want to link on. If you want to click on the link, here is the link for you. But still you know it’s i would say it’s a decent concern to have. The other thing is one of the things that I think is great that GPT is great for, and in this case Bing, because as you know, it’s the same model, it’s the same technology, it’s basically creating summaries or drafts or even generating at your prompt ideas. The thing is, you will always need to Polish that. You will always need to double check that. You will always need to expand on that so it’s i would say it’s a great Kickstarter, but that’s not the end of it. There’s always again the human brain that needs to jump in and needs to tweak things and need to massage things and need to make sure that everything is correct and needs to make sure that the right information is there. I would say that down the road probably because all these tools will only improve and will become more intelligent. I think probably down the road what we will see is better uses of Being or GpT in kind of at scale right now, although there is a lot of fun and we also you do that like write me a poem about this and that and I want to write a book about this and that so give me the plot or you know that’s a lot of fun. There’s still a way to go when we want to use artificial intelligence in that way. What I completely agree on with you and I am absolutely convinced of is that none of this will replace anyone working any human working on creating content, on supervising content, on understanding other humans brains, on understanding importance of interaction and rapport, on, you know, someone who is interviewing other person that is something that GPT is not going to do for you. If you are thinking about an audience and how to generate content for an audience from a marketing standpoint, you need to know your audience and you need to understand what takes your audience and you need to understand how your audience is going to react. Again, great tool for a system i don’t think that is a tool for replacing.


Danny Gavin    34:29 

But it sounds like that if you don’t embrace this tool, you might be out of a job, right because if everyone else is using it, you’re going to be at a totally disadvantage.


Aurora Losada    34:38 

I totally believe so. Not just applying the tool, but with the whole adoption of the tool also comes a changing mindset and I can tell you that applies for me as well. So once you start playing around with it and experimenting it and understanding how amazing this can be in many different ways, it changes your life and it changes your mind. But if you resist it and if you dismiss it, that is a problem yeah.


Danny Gavin    35:05 

And because you’re bilingual and you’re dealing with Latin America, do you have any experiences with how multiple languages play into the content output from AI?


Aurora Losada    35:14 

It’s amazing. It’s really good. S.


Aurora Losada    35:16 

O whether it’s English, whether it’s Spanish, it’s on. It’s good. It’s perfect. That’s kind of scary.


Danny Gavin    35:23 

You know, it’s funny because, you know, i don’t know if you’re a scifi person, but in Star Trek, the idea is how come all these different nationalities can speak to each other, understand? Because there’s this like universal translator, you know, and with these types of things, you understand well it’s going to happen where we’ll, you know, have something in our ear and when people are talking, you know, we’ll hear exactly what it is because no longer our language is a barrier, but it’s all the same using tools like this.


Danny Gavin    35:47 

Thank you for listening to the Digital Marketing Mentor Podcast. Be sure to check us out online at the DM mentor.com and at the DM Mentor on Instagram. And don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts for more marketing mentor magic. See you next time.


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